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Post by kueifei on Jun 16, 2021 0:59:17 GMT
I saw the phrase "70 years of misrule" and I was inspired to start a thread where we can discuss where HM went wrong in her reign where she should have or could have gone in a better direction. What would you have done if you had faced her choices?
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Post by Admin on Jun 16, 2021 1:36:42 GMT
Well, thanks for introducing such an intriguing thread, KF.
I'll start slowly (it's been a long day)... I will start by saying it's unfortunate she wasn't better educated, as previous royal princes and princesses generally were. I think this started off a lack of self-confidence in the role? Even though it wasn't expected she would rule when born, she did become heir presumptive when a small child - she should have been trained and educated much, much better.
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Post by kueifei on Jun 16, 2021 4:33:42 GMT
I think HM's biggest mistake is that she didn't hire members of her own generation to help her and she retained her father's staff and failed to stop being so 'above' everything and I sincerely believe that her embrace of the Victorian era values is a HUGE mistake and a misstep that has cost the Windsors dearly. I also believe that if she and Philip had retained Clarence House as a main home and used Buckingham Palace as offices, as suggested by Philip, there would have been a better family situation rather than one that ended up creating so much distance. The worst part though, is how Princess Margaret was forbidden from marrying a truly decent man who would have provided a happy 20 year marriage and would have provided a large family and a retiring personality that wouldn't have minded being in the background. I mean really, look at what the Windsors are at now. Peter Townsend would have been an ideal husband and there was really nothing wrong with the man. It's not like the man was half the user that Tony Armstrong was. He wouldn't have whined about being 'useless' or wouldn't have mistreated Margaret. It's not like Margaret was someone who was anywhere near being Queen and it's not like Peter was anyone objectionable beyond his divorce, of which he was the innocent party. If HM had had staff nearer her own age, then I am certain that she would have made better choices. Then there was Winston Churchill who would NOT stop meddling with the Queen's initial decisions, which were usually sound ones as well. I sincerely believe that The Queen was not respected for the one who was rightly in charge. The Queen should not have been treated as an ingenue schoolgirl and her established weaknesses (lack of adequate education/timid nature/eager to please) is something that should have been respected. They knew that HM would be by her very upbringing deferential and they should have backed off and supported her in asserting herself. She was taken advantage of and that should not have happened.
Then there is the issue of marriage. Princess Margaret should not have been pushed away from Townsend and second, there was little chance of the kind of match that used to happen. There were nearly zero princes available and then there is the fact that Margaret was never the antiseptic type and there is zero excuse for her to have been denied the happy marriage that would have come with Townsend. Disliking someone because of a previous marriage is so out of line since as we all know, divorces are sometimes necessary for safety's sake and it was Townsend's wife who was straying. Then there was the fact that Camilla wasn't considered good enough since she wasn't high nobility, but as gentry, she was a perfectly respectable choice and was a member of 'the club' and therefore was not at all someone who was just another tawdry climber (like who that we all know of). I think that the palace forgets that no one of Camilla's previous lovers would have talked to the press and none of them would have wished her or Charles ill if they had married. Marrying a woman of age and experience would have given Charles the ability to relax and I also think trying to find someone to mold/control/groom would have ended in failure anyway. Even if Camilla hadn't been good enough, Charles would have been smart to find someone with sophistication to accept that it would not be an idealized  -tale and would really be more of an arrangement where both would look after the other, but would not be unaware of the prince having Camilla as a fixture in his life in whatever form it is. Despite the fact that I abhor adultery, I see how Camilla is in fact good for him and he is someone who is now enjoying a stable personal life despite his idiot sons. Camilla makes him happy and stable and fulfilled and I think the RF worries too much about being in the press. |
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Post by Winnie the Pooh on Jul 21, 2021 20:32:09 GMT
Thank you for your insightful contributions. Agree with what has been said, but one thing is notable; the role of the Queen Mother! Imagine literally living with your mum under the same roof (albeit in a big residence) and having her offering her opinion on everything, starting with family, marriages and including affairs of state. Seriously, regarding Margarethe's situation in the 50s and matching Charles with Di in -81, weren't those the doing of the Queen Mother rather? I truly feel for the Queen in this regard, not being able to act autonomously and having to justify her actions to and being second-guessed by her mother (if not by her husband). So I believe the continuation of the "ancient regime" in the 50s was much due to the Queen Mother's influence and then again Philip supposedly did his part. Besides, I also believe that Kate was groomed to be the future queen due to some family connection in the past (illegitimate child placed in her family on her father's side, e.g. grandfather?) or something of that nature, as her family traces their fortune to the late 80s when the Queen Mother was known to have divided the family funds between her grandchildren. And Kate and her sister were known to have ties to the Royals in the mid 90s. so I think the Queen Mother set up that union as well.... Not that there is anything wrong with that!
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Post by kueifei on Jul 21, 2021 20:46:46 GMT
As far as I am concerned the Queen Mother should have had the dignity to step back. I also think HM failed to let change come about naturally. Camilla and Townsend would have made great consorts. Camilla wasn't a virgin but she is good for Charles. I can only believe that HM yearns for the old empire and refuses to accept that it is never coming back. HM always has had change forced upon her.
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Post by bunnyette on Jul 22, 2021 16:56:05 GMT
The Queen was only 10 when her uncle abdicated. Her parents had plenty of time to give her a good education that would have made her much better Queen. Once she became Queen, she needed to give her mother some jobs to keep her busy and out of the way. Same with Margaret. Let her marry Townsend. Margaret also suffered from a lack of good education. Princess Anne actually asked to to boarding school as she didn’t want to have same lack of education as her Mother.
Not properly vetting Diana was a huge mistake as was not taking control of Princes William & Harry after Diana died. Ensure William was properly trained to understand his role and sending Harry to a more suitable school than Eton.
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Post by kueifei on Jul 22, 2021 17:38:19 GMT
Denying Margaret a happy marriage was the worst of it. The COE was formed so monarchs could divorce without the permission of the pope and I dislike how Margaret had so many constrictions without even being able to live a life of purpose. She had a lot of things taken from her and was just required to lump it. Margaret couldn't even marry a decent man and ended up married to a total climber who mistreated her. As for the QM she should have been required to work in a position of a courtier or been something that put her in a supportive role not a domineering one. HM failed to draw lines and have them enforced.
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Post by india on Jul 22, 2021 22:11:57 GMT
All above very well said. Yes, the BRF has really messed up. Poor judgment left and right.
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Post by romilly on Aug 7, 2021 15:23:03 GMT
It’s said to be going to get much much worse when Harry gives more interviews and then what he is going to say in his books. The Monarchy are in for a very hard time according to their friends.
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cheryl
Baron/Baroness
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Post by cheryl on Nov 22, 2021 6:47:43 GMT
Margaret was free to marry Townsend, but she would have had to give up her royal status and wouldn't have been in the line for the throne. She chose to walk away. It's no one's blame but her own that she focused on movie stars like Peter Sellars and the rest. She was a spoiled and rude woman. She chose to drink and to smoke and later to do drugs. She picked easy charities like The Royal Ballet and such. Margaret chose to marry Tony, who was a rather nasty bi sexual man. No One forced to do any of those things. My grandmother knew Margaret and disliked her.
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Post by Admin on Nov 22, 2021 15:24:36 GMT
Margaret was free to marry Townsend, but she would have had to give up her royal status and wouldn't have been in the line for the throne. She chose to walk away. It's no one's blame but her own that she focused on movie stars like Peter Sellars and the rest. She was a spoiled and rude woman. She chose to drink and to smoke and later to do drugs. She picked easy charities like The Royal Ballet and such. Margaret chose to marry Tony, who was a rather nasty bi sexual man. No One forced to do any of those things. My grandmother knew Margaret and disliked her. Do dish please, about your grandmother knowing her.  |
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cheryl
Baron/Baroness
Posts: 66
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Post by cheryl on Nov 22, 2021 20:23:41 GMT
Margaret was free to marry Townsend, but she would have had to give up her royal status and wouldn't have been in the line for the throne. She chose to walk away. It's no one's blame but her own that she focused on movie stars like Peter Sellars and the rest. She was a spoiled and rude woman. She chose to drink and to smoke and later to do drugs. She picked easy charities like The Royal Ballet and such. Margaret chose to marry Tony, who was a rather nasty bi sexual man. No One forced to do any of those things. My grandmother knew Margaret and disliked her. Do dish please, about your grandmother knowing her. My grandmother came from a titled family, her mother also knew The QM and Queen Mary. My family have been around royal family for centuries .. not as staff, but as acquaintances and even friends. My grandmother spent time at Balmor@l and knew Margaret very well. She was not impressed by Margaret's drinking, smoking, rude attitude towards members of staff or other she deemed beneath her. She would walk past her baby who was pushed in a pram by the nanny. Not much of hand's on mother. She described Margaret as a spoiled and selfish drunk. She actually liked Tony, but then she didn't have to live with him. |
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Post by kueifei on Oct 15, 2022 4:25:13 GMT
Now that HM is gone, I wonder how God Himself looked at her reign.
Did she seek to pass and maintain just laws?
What did she do for anyone who would never be able to do anything for her?
Did she hold the highest to account for their behavior in regards to laws?
Did she seek knowledge and accept answers free from her own prejudices? Did she make as much of a sacrifice of her own glory as she could?
Did she maintain the rights of others lesser than herself?
I wonder how HM's Final Judgement went if God asked her those questions.
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Post by Admin on Oct 15, 2022 12:41:57 GMT
Now that HM is gone, I wonder how God Himself looked at her reign.
Did she seek to pass and maintain just laws?
What did she do for anyone who would never be able to do anything for her?
Did she hold the highest to account for their behavior in regards to laws?
Did she seek knowledge and accept answers free from her own prejudices? Did she make as much of a sacrifice of her own glory as she could?
Did she maintain the rights of others lesser than herself? I wonder how HM's Final Judgement went if God asked her those questions.
She wasted her opportunities and privileges that were given to her. She essentially allowed her entire family legacy to be tarnished and absolutely ruined - I won't even get into why or how she did that, but ultimately she allowed it all. It's unbelievable how badly it all turned out. We are all flawed beings, of course, but she was called upon for a higher purpose, and more was expected of her - the greatest insult, I believe anyways, is when you deliberately take for granted or work against/dismiss your call to serve your purpose. Hopefully, she was asked those questions. |
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Post by kueifei on Oct 17, 2022 23:03:02 GMT
QE taught her family to disrespect their spouses. Andrew and Charles were not raised to go out of their way to meet/court women outside of the stupid country set and second, Princess Anne likely drove her husband away in regards to her bad attitude as well. Edward's has survived mainly since it is clear that Sophie has zero self respect and enough has been said about the most recent generation. QE also failed to make sure that staff was replaced with younger and more savvy staff who were able to better handle the press and who were better able to deal with the manipulations of Fregie and Diana. It's not like either Diana or Fergie were entirely victims. As to the most recent generation, none of them were controlled in a way that they should have been and the worst thing was to let Harry and William and the York princesses end up behaving like trust funds kids, but on the taxpayer dime. Willaim with his gap year and jet setting while at uni and Harry dropping out of military service because he didn't want to stick it out in a desk job so he could move up to Admiral of the Fleet. Go figure, letting Camilla become a wife/princess consort. I find it telling that no decent woman worth her own basic self respect shifted her priorities to chase after either prince and William married a party girl who prefers to just mooch and Harry has married a kind of third level actress who was being written off her own show and so when he wandered along, he predictably pounced.
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#JamesMiddleton