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Post by Admin on Jul 3, 2020 13:51:32 GMT
youtu.be/uAr_bK6_6hkThe Habsburgs: Rarely Seen Masterpieces from Europe's Greatest Dynasty exhibition video
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Post by Admin on Jul 3, 2020 13:55:04 GMT
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Post by india on Jul 5, 2020 13:14:59 GMT
I love these two videos. I went to school in Vienna and they brought back many memories. Thank you Admin for posting them.
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Post by Admin on Jul 5, 2020 16:55:24 GMT
I love these two videos. I went to school in Vienna and they brought back many memories. Thank you Admin for posting them. You're welcome! I think we can all learn a lot about royal history from these interesting videos and documentaries. It would nice to see the grandeur of Austria and Vienna someday.
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Post by kueifei on Oct 16, 2020 11:13:05 GMT
This is a family that has produced Kings, Queen Consorts, princesses, crown princes, and who knows how many popes and clergy. I also know that the Spanish Habsburgs died out due to inbreeding and as a result didn't end up producing except through the Bourbon line and Austrian line. Marie Antoinette is one of their most famous Queen Consorts and go figure, they left her to die at the hands of violent revolutionaries. I also believe that they were instrumental in WWI, resulting in their being dethroned.
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Post by Admin on Oct 16, 2020 22:11:06 GMT
This is a family that has produced Kings, Queen Consorts, princesses, crown princes, and who knows how many popes and clergy. I also know that the Spanish Habsburgs died out due to inbreeding and as a result didn't end up producing except through the Bourbon line and Austrian line. Marie Antoinette is one of their most famous Queen Consorts and go figure, they left her to die at the hands of violent revolutionaries. I also believe that they were instrumental in WWI, resulting in their being dethroned. MA is actually another distant cousin of mine, apparently. All the German inter-marrying, etc. Not through the Habsburgs, by from other lines. I really wonder why thy didn't have the power to save her? I would have to revisit my historical notes about the Alliances prior to WW1 - it does make for some interesting, but complicated reading.
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Post by Admin on Oct 16, 2020 22:12:40 GMT
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Post by Admin on Dec 10, 2020 4:45:23 GMT
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Post by Admin on Dec 10, 2020 4:46:46 GMT
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Post by kueifei on Nov 17, 2024 3:35:56 GMT
I always wondered why the Habsburgs never married Hungarians. It would have been an ideal choice; the Habsburgs do all this posturing about "Austro-Hungarian" empire but never married Hungarian princes and princesses. If Emperor Franz Ferdinand had married a Hungarian princess and married German family members to Hungarians, it would have strengthened the ties and connection to the Hungarian culture and people. Instead, the morons dated and married Germans and not very smart ones. If Crown Prince Rudolf had been married to a beautiful and energetic Hungarian princess, instead of Bavarian Stephanie, it would have ended up making many things easier. I sometimes think that if the Romanovs had married less Germans and Danes and had married Romanians and Hungarians there would have been a lot less of the failings that predominate in German royals.
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sophia
Baron/Baroness
Posts: 92
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Post by sophia on Nov 19, 2024 19:06:38 GMT
It’s not that simple. The Habsburgs, and other similar families, were focused on maintaining their pure blood Germanic heritage. IMO, giving concessions to the Hungarians in the first place was a mistake, it could only lead to further separatism. At the beginning of the 20th century Slavic separatism was the main problem for the Habsburgs. Therefore to rationalise your point, the Habsburgs should have married eligible Slavic women. That would never have worked. Btw, the Danish royals were German too. Virtually all European royal lineages are Germanic, even the French and Spanish.
What should have happened, is that Bismarck should broken up the Habsburg domains and annexed Austria, Bohemia, and all German speaking areas, allowed the Hungrarians to do what they wanted, and allowed Russia to exert its influence in other areas.
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Post by kueifei on Nov 19, 2024 19:58:24 GMT
It’s not that simple. The Habsburgs, and other similar families, were focused on maintaining their pure blood Germanic heritage. IMO, giving concessions to the Hungarians in the first place was a mistake, it could only lead to further separatism. At the beginning of the 20th century Slavic separatism was the main problem for the Habsburgs. Therefore to rationalise your point, the Habsburgs should have married eligible Slavic women. That would never have worked. Btw, the Danish royals were German too. Virtually all European royal lineages are Germanic, even the French and Spanish. What should have happened, is that Bismarck should broken up the Habsburg domains and annexed Austria, Bohemia, and all German speaking areas, allowed the Hungrarians to do what they wanted, and allowed Russia to exert its influence in other areas. Not concessions, inclusion. If the Hungarians had been part of the Imperial family, it would have been in their interest to maintain the Austro-Hungarian empire in terms of family and lineage, not just allegiance. Concessions are not inclusion. If there had been less fixation on their Germanic heritage and lineage, they would have been pragmatically developing and maintaining a tie that would have made the Austro-Hungarian connection inviolable. The Hungarians were ruled by a bunch of Germans that never paid sincere attention to them and made sure they were part of things. The main reason that dynasties often fall is that they forget that inclusion should be a main focus, not concessions. Look at how the Windsors ignore the Commonwealth nations in favor of France or Italy. If eligible Slavic men had married Austrian Archduchesses that would have been ideal as well. Second, a Hungarian consort would not have been cavalier about her duties as Sissi was. Many Germanic consorts were not willing to accept that there are consequences in this world and Eastern European women are not raised with kid gloves. A disciplined Eastern European consort would have been far more dutiful and able to handle the rigors of a court life. The problem with the divine right mindset is that it does not take into consideration that God runs out of patience. Look at history for how He has often acted towards those who do not fulfill their obligations in leadership.
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sophia
Baron/Baroness
Posts: 92
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Post by sophia on Nov 22, 2024 0:19:30 GMT
I’m very sympathetic to your POW. The fact is that there is the racial element, which was very real at that time. They did NOT want their royal children to marry a person of the of Hungarian or Slavic ‘race’. The Habsburg certainly didn’t marry strategically or wisely towards the end. Several of Franz Josephs nieces, nephews and extended relatives entered meaningless marriages. In such an environment, Franz Ferdinand did indeed marry a Slavic wife, from the houses of the Czech Chotek and Kinsky families (These mediatised houses such as Eszterházy, Batthyány or Czernin, Ledóchowski etc. had become extensively Germanised.) but Sophie, rightly, wasn’t considered eligible enough, and it weakened the monarchy. A better option would have been marriage to a highly noble Russian aristocrat (avoiding the Germanised Romanovs.) However, Austria and Russia being enemies, made that difficult and, backed by Russia, it would have led to increased Slavic separatism. Given the situation the Habsburgs were in mid 19th century onwards, the best option was either German supremacy, with active and harsh repression of Hungarians and Slavs, or to break up the empire into its historic royal and ethnic domains.
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Post by kueifei on Nov 22, 2024 2:31:10 GMT
I’m very sympathetic to your POW. The fact is that there is the racial element, which was very real at that time. They did NOT want their royal children to marry a person of the of Hungarian or Slavic ‘race’. The Habsburg certainly didn’t marry strategically or wisely towards the end. Several of Franz Josephs nieces, nephews and extended relatives entered meaningless marriages. In such an environment, Franz Ferdinand did indeed marry a Slavic wife, from the houses of the Czech Chotek and Kinsky families (These mediatised houses such as Eszterházy, Batthyány or Czernin, Ledóchowski etc. had become extensively Germanised.) but Sophie, rightly, wasn’t considered eligible enough, and it weakened the monarchy. A better option would have been marriage to a highly noble Russian aristocrat (avoiding the Germanised Romanovs.) However, Austria and Russia being enemies, made that difficult and, backed by Russia, it would have led to increased Slavic separatism. Given the situation the Habsburgs were in mid 19th century onwards, the best option was either German supremacy, with active and harsh repression of Hungarians and Slavs, or to break up the empire into its historic royal and ethnic domains. What irritates me to no end is how they refused to develop street smarts. The Germanized houses always develop a sort of psychopathic narcissism that has undermined their ability to make good choices and take good advice. The real issue I see here is that the royal houses then would not set aside pointless animosity and intermarry, if only for the cynical sake of including lines that would cement the hold over the Hungarian branch of the overhyped Austro-Hungarian empire. Even worse, WWI was fought over territory, as if either empire didn't have enough already. The Russo-Japanese war was over territory, despite the fact that the Tsar already had one-sixth of the world covered in how much he already ruled. Like modern day Windsors, the royals mouthed off claiming divine right, without accepting that they live in a real world where God will at times refuse to help since they are supposed to be helping themselves. There is no guarantee if war or separatism if the Russian royals and Austrian royals would drop a pointless animosity that had long ago been exhausted. If the Austrians had married even Germanized Romanovs, I am certain that things would have, should have eased. Second, a Slavic Russian noble would have in fact been better and a lot of the requirements for an ideal imperial consort should have been eased. As long as it was a member of 'the club,' I am certain that there really shouldn't be problems. The real problem of inbreeding was caused by the heightened requirements of royal consorts and as a result, stupidity and other recessive genes became prominent, and the entire Habsburg Spanish branch was killed off by inbreeding. The relentless refusal to let go of heightened, unrealistic standards is what has in fact ended up making such a mess of things. When he was Prince of Wales, King Charles could have married a lot of Protestant princesses from dethroned royal houses and could have taken more responsibility to date and marry foreign princesses with more than enough British lineage that could be traced back but regrettably Charles was hopelessly localized and failed to put himself out there and make a sincere effort. What makes this worse is that the emperor who married Sisi did not think beyond his enjoyable infatuation with Sisi and married disastrously. So many messes could have been avoided. The level aside, if he had sought out and married a Hungarian consort, noble, princess (of which there were surely many) then it would have bound the Hungarians to the Habsburgs genetically, that is what would have been made to count. Same with modern royalty. They refuse to accept that marrying each other is not the same as pre-WWI inbreeding. It really is not. Frankly put, if Madeleine of Sweden had married Prince William there would not have been any real issue of inbreeding making a mess and second, Sisi was the epitome of the girl next door, and no public figure should date/marry the girl next door who has not proven herself capable of much of anything. If Charles had married Caroline of Monaco, I think it would have saved things because Caroline would never have stepped out of line or been unable to handle Camilla. In fact, I think Camilla would still be a long-term mistress, not a Queen Consort. The problem with dethroned families is that they refuse to see that they were instrumental in facilitating revolutions that were avoidable if they had done their job. If the then-reigning royals had maintained peace at all costs and defused escalation, WWI would not have happened, and Nazism and Japanese Imperialism would have been better contained or defused. Therefore, WWII would not have happened with the butchery of the Holocaust, and we know the loss of life in the battlefield as well. When royals refuse to do their job, suffering always occurs after the dismantling of each dynasty. All this would be avoided if they would DO THEIR JOB and stop making bad choices and if they stopped having a bad attitude towards their positions in life, it would be easier on everyone. For all that everyone whines about communism, if the royals looked after their people, communists would not get a foothold. Politicians understand this, but for some reason royals become too stupid to realize and accept this. The dethroned families also refuse to accept that they had their time, failed, and should just chill with their status and do their part and train for a position within government in addition to their ceremonial responsibilities. For some reason they are just not smart or adaptable enough to do this.
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