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Post by kueifei on Nov 7, 2022 16:42:11 GMT
Diana knew the royal way of life. Diana was the epitome of the narcissistic special snowflake.
She knew royal consorts had demanding public lives and she grew up with the royals. Diana knew Charles' hobbies and pursuits since she knew him her whole life. She was not at all someone who was foreign to knowing that Charles had very specific habits and hobbies and preferences. She might have likely knew all about Camilla. Diana knew that way of life and while she might not have liked hunting, she could have had a better attitude towards it. She could have prepped luncheons and picnics and who knows what else. She could have easily had fun performing skits at hunting parties or at evening gatherings. There was nothing she couldn't do for Charles or for much of anyone else. She could have done so much if she had loved him and she reminds me of my Dad, he couldn't love someone he didn't respect.
Diana didn't respect Charles, at all, and I believe that is why she didn't love him. She really did not know the difference between the cheap and the great and I believe she didn't love Charles because she mistakenly thought that being more English somehow made her better or better connected with the nation and it didn't. She would not show basic gratitude for him lifting her from being one of many debutantes seeking a husband and into something more grand. She shredded his reputation, shredded his peace of mind, shredded his rightful ability to move on, and shredded his relationship with his family. She did nothing to promote him, his work, his family life, she wouldn't help him connect with the public and she NEVER lifted a well manicured hand to develop herself.
After all he gave her, she did all that to him. A woman who loved her husband would have done what all wives do if they want their marriage to work. Diana went after the title, got it, and proceeded to shred the man. She proceeded to shred her own standing. Then after he gave up, Diana was concretely surprised that he turned for good to Camilla and cut her out of his personal life. Then we all know what she did.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2022 5:04:55 GMT
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Post by Admin on Nov 12, 2022 0:31:56 GMT
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Post by Admin on Nov 12, 2022 0:32:27 GMT
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Post by Admin on Nov 12, 2022 0:33:06 GMT
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Post by kueifei on Nov 12, 2022 3:54:03 GMT
I never thought about it that way kueifei but I think you are on point and right. So many people are quick to blame Charles but there is certainly another story. I don't think the marriage should have gone ahead as they were not suited to each other but it could be that Diana never loved Charles. Her actions certainly demonstrate that she didn't really love him with the affairs and certainly later with the Morton book, the interview and trying to overthrow Charles. When you think about it if she really loved Charles she would not have done those things or at least tried to work on the marriage. Diana growing up was around Sandringham and Andrew and Edward. So maybe Diana's interests were in Andrew more than Charles.
Diana had her own ambitions and sense of family grandeur. She was no genuine ingenue; it was part of her that she was very mixed up and regrettably she would not straighten things out. If she had loved Charles, she would have taken shot after shot at Camilla and figured out how to drive Camilla out and she would have ended up easily insinuating herself into his interests, his hobbies, his mind, and his passion for the Trust. Then Camilla would have been a memory instead of a consort. Second, in the film "The Duchess," Georgiana's mother told G that if Bess was to be gotten rid of, G had to get multiple heirs and spend time with him and drop gambling, politics, and partying and focus on her husband, but G was upset at what was genuinely good advice. Diana was likely the same. There were surely people telling Diana to stop focusing on press coverage, stop focusing on her pain, and focus on making herself useful to the FIRM and the BRF and earn Charles' respect. If Diana had done that Charles would have respected her more and would have taken her more seriously.
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Post by Admin on Nov 12, 2022 5:20:38 GMT
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Post by kueifei on Nov 12, 2022 17:37:05 GMT
I know the difference between clinical mental illness and a personality disorder and Diana had to have had a personality disorder. With clinical depression, it lasts nine months maximum and you don't get pushed to become bulimic. Post-natal depression does not make a person bulimic and she was not compelled by depression to do that autobiography with Andrew Morton or that interview with Panorama. Then there is the fact that throughout her entire little narrative, Diana was never at fault for anything and there is no way that anyone is that saintly. I speak from experience that if someone is in the throes of mental illness, they are not running a stealth interview with a biographer or a television network. Third, Diana after her divorce was free as a bird so she wasn't able to rightly blame Charles for Carling or Hoare. I think one of the many valuable aspects of feminism is how it removes the pale of eternal victim-hood from women and forces us as a society to reevaluate our former icons. Marilyn Monroe was respected as a victim, but lately a lot of people are calling her out on her adultery with JFK and RFK. Both men are chastised for their adultery, but no one thinks of Marilyn as a perfect little innocent taken advantage of by the big bad men. Likewise with Diana, a lot of people are calling her out more and more about her bad choices and her determination to destroy Charles. She grew to maturity with a cheating husband and took lovers, but her messing with married men while single, that was the worst of it. Another major cultural hit she levied against the 'establishment' is how she thought that normal was a life of doing nothing with oneself and how the press was the worst aspect of her highly privileged life. She raised her sons to think that the ideal was a life of middling directionless privilege and that is not at all true. One thing to dissolve after a long day or dissolve after a long life of work at retirement, but neither William or Harry should have been raised with the 'all or nothing' approach. Like after uni fun time ends (it doesn't) and how a life of royalty is a life of constrained uselessness (it isn't), and she made a horrific choice in raising them to think that normal middle class people have uncomplicated lives (they do not) and that they were victims (they aren't). She played the public to perfection in convincing people that she had had a hard life and she should have been willing to be honest with herself about how she herself enjoyed the good life and never wanted her luxurious lifestyle to change.
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Post by Admin on Nov 21, 2022 13:37:45 GMT
Aside: Will place this here and in the Diana thread. So much dysfunction, so little time.
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Post by Admin on Nov 21, 2022 13:47:42 GMT
Aside: Spare us?
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Post by kueifei on Nov 21, 2022 23:36:54 GMT
I think Diana was in the wrong and QE was right. The late queen was supportive and Diana was wrong to 'feel' that she was persecuted. Diana wanted to be unhappy. She had all the tools in her arsenal to be happy and healthy and productive. QE let Diana expose her sons to the wider world and less strict. QE could have done worse than order a divorce after Diana insulted Tiggy. Why couldn't Diana see that? Toxic parenting 101; kids are not supposed to take up for their parents except in RARE circumstances and Diana should not be manipulating William to put in a good word for her and she is such a sad sack no wonder Charles got fed up. Always unhappy, always wanting to go shop even when it really is a waste of time and she had no right to manipulate her children into sticking up for her against their father. She was smothering and her unhappiness is tiresome to watch.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2022 20:43:20 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2022 20:52:47 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2022 23:21:24 GMT
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Post by Admin on Nov 25, 2022 23:28:55 GMT
I think Diana was in the wrong and QE was right. The late queen was supportive and Diana was wrong to 'feel' that she was persecuted. Diana wanted to be unhappy. She had all the tools in her arsenal to be happy and healthy and productive. QE let Diana expose her sons to the wider world and less strict. QE could have done worse than order a divorce after Diana insulted Tiggy. Why couldn't Diana see that? Toxic parenting 101; kids are not supposed to take up for their parents except in RARE circumstances and Diana should not be manipulating William to put in a good word for her and she is such a sad sack no wonder Charles got fed up. Always unhappy, always wanting to go shop even when it really is a waste of time and she had no right to manipulate her children into sticking up for her against their father. She was smothering and her unhappiness is tiresome to watch.
You know, I'm getting beyond fed up (so what else is new?) about the victim narrative and wow, I pitied Charles in that 2nd video when they were on a yacht. Like, REALLY? You are on a yacht and you want to go shopping? Yes, this is from "The Crown", but even still. I never was keen on Diana's mock-shy look - head down, but eyes cast up? (I don't know how to describe it well, right now); there was sometimes this soft smirk that didn't sit well with me. It was like she was almost trying to play the shy, bashful lamb, but she was too smart and aware for that? Almost machiavellian in a way? (and nothing wrong with being a bit crafty at times, of course), but seeing and knowing what really went on behind the scenes, seems insulting. Insulting to those of us who aren't easily fooled or played by some people. I don't know, that's just me. For the first video, I agree with your assessment - she seemed to choose being unhappy (as far as the clip suggests) and good on the Queen to at least remind her how her actions were affecting others.
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Post by kueifei on Nov 26, 2022 0:01:35 GMT
I think Diana was in the wrong and QE was right. The late queen was supportive and Diana was wrong to 'feel' that she was persecuted. Diana wanted to be unhappy. She had all the tools in her arsenal to be happy and healthy and productive. QE let Diana expose her sons to the wider world and less strict. QE could have done worse than order a divorce after Diana insulted Tiggy. Why couldn't Diana see that? Toxic parenting 101; kids are not supposed to take up for their parents except in RARE circumstances and Diana should not be manipulating William to put in a good word for her and she is such a sad sack no wonder Charles got fed up. Always unhappy, always wanting to go shop even when it really is a waste of time and she had no right to manipulate her children into sticking up for her against their father. She was smothering and her unhappiness is tiresome to watch.
You know, I'm getting beyond fed up (so what else is new?) about the victim narrative and wow, I pitied Charles in that 2nd video when they were on a yacht. Like, REALLY? You are on a yacht and you want to go shopping? Yes, this is from "The Crown", but even still. I never was keen on Diana's mock-shy look - head down, but eyes cast up? (I don't know how to describe it well, right now); there was sometimes this soft smirk that didn't sit well with me. It was like she was almost trying to play the shy, bashful lamb, but she was too smart and aware for that? Almost machiavellian in a way? (and nothing wrong with being a bit crafty at times, of course), but seeing and knowing what really went on behind the scenes, seems insulting. Insulting to those of us who aren't easily fooled or played by some people. I don't know, that's just me. At thirty/thirty-five it was calculation and quite frankly, I get sick of the 'unhappy princess' narrative playing out.
If I ever have the chance to sail on a plush yacht, I will not want to focus on shopping; I would want to dance and sing and perform skits and make a fool of myself and certainly, end up having a blast. For Diana to want to do shopping, that was unfair to Charles. If Diana had conceded, it would have been the first mature act in her marriage. I am bitter that the series really let viewers down; no Fergie acting like she was, no Diana talking dirty to Gilbey or stalking Hoare, and no scandals where Diana was overexposing herself. Then there is the fact that Diana did after all end up being unable to handle a world where people were people and not assigned roles/rank. It would have been good to see Fergie's mess and who knows what else. Diana by the time of her divorce had done so much damage that even the late queen broke with her own values of marriage being sacrosanct and ordered a divorce forthwith. The late queen telling Diana that they were all so busy that they didn't have time to think of themselves is accurate. They had a life and on holidays they would gather and regale each other with stories about their work and their activities.
Upper class families have a life, they need it and that is ironically how they stay strong as families. Their drama is in their work and charities, not their personal lives. Diana refused to accept that she was a child of privilege and she was someone who was not deprived of anything. Even Charles wanted his marriage to remain. What happened however is that Diana refused to use her resources to build her own standing and accept her development into a mature adult. She would not accept that her ingenue years were over and for the life of me, I wonder how on earth she thought that a 'new beginning' post-divorce would go good for her. She surely could never make it in the world with no qualifications, no maturity, and she had the added bad reputation of a woman who shreds the reputations of people who give her her opportunities. Men, smart men, do not commit to women who have a history of shredding the reputations of their ex-husbands and their families. She had no concrete educational qualifications and men are snobs who prefer to seriously date women who have education, formal training, and a brain. Diana claimed to be sick of being a source of trophy lust, but she would not do anything to change her life around.
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Post by kueifei on Dec 14, 2022 1:45:34 GMT
One of the most vile aspects of her death was how the public DEMANDED that the princes fall apart publicly. If I were required to walk in a public funeral procession, I would want to keep myself together and I am disgusted that people sincerely thought that they owned William and Harry after Diana's death, or that there was some kind of bond between all those wailing women and the princes. The people in the public sphere are public sphere, not members of the BRF and neither prince owed these women anything and no one owed the public a public display of hysterics. I remember reading how one deranged woman yelled at Prince Philip "look after the boys" and Philip retorted that he and others had been doing just that. What kind of crazy woman sincerely thinks that they are so 'in' that they in fact would have some kind of right to say something like that to the very family of those princes? Neither William or Harry belonged to them or were their relatives. I know all too well the tragedy of Diana's overthrow and inability to cope in a world where social interactions were a lot less hierarchical, but I believe that there are still way too many crazy people who developed some kind of psychotic delusion that Diana and her sons were/are somehow connected to them in a deeper way than the superficial reality of an artificial connection created by the media. Diana was not their friend and neither prince had an obligation to have a complete public breakdown. Mourning in private was in fact their right and probably their best coping method to deal with the full frontal shock and Diana was THEIR mother, not the mother of the general public. I am reminded of how some crazy mistresses think that their lover's children by the legitimate wife is in fact somehow THEIR children as well if only in proxy sentiment.
What makes it worse, is how no one quietly, but firmly told Elton John that now that Diana was dead, he was going to have to let go of any imaginary connection to the princes and that the princes would be protected and cared for by the royal family, not him. I find it creepy after hearing that Elton John supposedly tucked the princes into bed at night, how WEIRD is that? After Diana's death, Elton should have been firmly iced out of the prince's lives and should have been put in his place while the princes developed theirs in the wider, non-celebrity world. I find it HIGHLY inappropriate that Elton was involved in the lives of two adolescent princes who should have been developing an age appropriate peer group.
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Post by kueifei on Mar 22, 2023 2:02:00 GMT
I sometimes wonder how different much would have been if Diana had been willing to learn and grow and stop being a daddy's girl. It would have been better and it would have been best to stop pretending that she would have thrived as a middle class wife. Diana's conception of 'reality' was warped by her privileged status as a member of the aristocracy and there was something about her that would not see the realities of 'normal life' as it would apply to her. Diana had some kind of malfunction that prevented things, certain things, from being 'real' to her. Like the hurt she caused Hewitt, or the stress she placed HME under when Diana would shoot her mouth off about Charles or William or Harry being better than one another. On one hand she talked about how William would be a better king, or how Harry would be a better king than William, but I think deep down Diana thought that SHE would be the better monarch. A huge reason people with disorders do not seek help is that consequences (something Diana was protected from) are sometimes not 'real' to them.
Diana mentioned not wanting a divorce, but she kept taking one shot after another until HME lost patience and it wasn't until she killed Charles' reputation and set her son up as a pretender. What makes me angry about the self destructive is how everyone uses mental illness as an excuse instead of condemning the behavior that does so much damage. People with mental illness do NOT scheme with producers to perform in an excoriating interview smashing up the reputations of her husband and his family and people with chemical imbalances do not really pick fights, on the contrary they are usually unusually trusting and passive people.
Up until the divorce, she was personality disordered bulimic who was subjecting her husband to ongoing verbal and emotional assaults and her behavior (increasingly bad) was escalating that by the time of Harry's birth, the marriage was dead because Charles was burned out from all her chronic chaos. Charles couldn't cope and by the time of her death it was clear that Diana herself was unstable and increasingly self destructive. Try living with people like that and try living with someone who thinks that you are always holding them back. Near the end of her life it is clear that she was someone who was unable or unwilling to make some kind of an adult life for herself. All women get hit with the bricks of having to develop independence and Diana did not handle it because she would NOT step up. We all have to deal with experiences in life that we are not trained/prepared for.
I think Diana was not aware of the 'reality' of being Princess of Wales or the 'reality' of being a public figure or the 'reality' of the effects of how her bulimia and bad choices alienated her husband. Thing is, that her divorce, the order to divorce, was the first 'real' thing to happen to her and I do not think that she was aware of how 'real' much of the world was until she was divorced and at a loose end. Losing her husband legally and losing her "HRH" was a wake-up call that she needed and if she had survived the crash, it would have been rock bottom. Some biographers mention how Diana wanted a man who matched Charles' stature and that was another delusion. There were no men with his stature and second, she kept failing to look underneath the surface. Many do not like President Trump's bombast, but he did graduate from University of Pennsylvania and those unis will eat a person alive; she never saw beneath the television personality and she never at any point saw the value of a man who came from a background of privilege, but in her mind Americans are not as good as her European self.
Diana's goal in life was to skim along the surfaces and to avoid paying the dues. She was insane to think that she could 'become' an ambassador/peacemaker and that is not what ambassadors do. They represent and do various stuff, but they also work to maintain current agreements and work to spend time just keeping wheels of state turning at various locations. Very basic stuff. It's not like you just market yourself and put in enough volunteer hours.
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Post by kueifei on May 18, 2023 4:00:25 GMT
I want to do a list of Diana's privileged life.
CHILDHOOD: 1. Born to a titled father and wealthy mother. 2. Born on a great ancestral estate; limitless acreage next door to the royal family.
3. Born with an "Honorable" to her name as a title. 4. No matter what she always had someone looking after her. 5. She had a tight circle of upper class friends who treated her as both insider and equal. 6. She was beautiful. 7. So privileged that she had her ballet and other formal training at her own home. 8. Had a huge spacious room and didn't have to clean up after herself. 9. Perfectly decent wardrobe and good prospects for improvement over time as she grew older. 10. Top schools and she had an undemanding curriculum and a ton of fun time. 11. The ability to move to central London and work for fun/pass the time until marriage. 12. Parties with people who most would KILL to be able to meet, much less party with. 13. Adored for being young and titled and supported by a wealthy family.
14. Beautiful and only becoming even more beautiful.
ADULTHOOD PRIVILEGE: 1. Married a prince, but not just 'a' prince, THE Prince of Wales and everyone just plain cheered her on despite the fact that she hadn't really done anything. 2. Living off of taxpayer cash and being lauded for it. 3. Royal jewels and wore family tiara to her wedding. Then more jewels for herself as gifts from the Arabs and the rest of the world, plus more money to buy more or access the royal vault. 4. Couture for evening, designer for the day, two pairs of shoes per outfit and two pairs of pantyhose per outfit and all of this was celebrated. 5. Ribbon cutting treated as a full time job/profession.
6. Children born on the taxpayer dime and that is celebrated instead of condemned. 7. Trashed and flouted protocol and proceeded to get celebrated for it. 8. Damaged the reputation of her husband and unquestioned right of succession and wasn't tried for treason. 9. Damaged the reputation of her second son by admitting to adultery with Hewitt; she should have known how people are and with the press, the press does not let logic get in the way of a good headline. 10. Slept with so many men that they cannot be counted, but somehow managed to convince people that she was still her pre-marital ingenue persona. 11. Got a huge chunk of change after ruining the reputations of her in-laws and putting up her eldest son as a competing pretender. 12. Lived in palatial palace digs post-divorce and still retained the courtesy title of "Princess of Wales" despite all she pulled.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2023 16:49:12 GMT
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