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Post by Admin on May 28, 2021 23:40:47 GMT
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Post by kueifei on May 29, 2021 9:35:47 GMT
I hope Diana is happy. Her sons successfully smashed thousands of year's worth of build up and would have certainly reveled in the destruction of Charles' reputation all over again. Instead of fancying herself a kingmaker, she is certainly leaving a legacy of king-breaking and I must say she must be enjoying this, wherever she is in the afterlife. I also like to believe that she has successfully ended up destroying the very system that protected her privileged life (although I doubt she sees anything like that) and the privileged lives of her fellow aristocrats. And in doing so, she may just have destroyed her sons, as they never were able to move beyond the Diana the Eternal Victim narrative. They never wanted to move beyond this because, quite frankly, it benefitted them. Don't want to work? Well, my mother St. Diana died. I don't want to do any charitable work because it's not very fun? That's fine, you poor grieving boys, you have to live with that nasty RF. Drag out the poor lone boys following the coffin and my, aren't they to be pitied? Their mean, cold father cheated on their mother, dontcha know? Daddy never took me on bike rides or did anything with me...mean old Charles who apparently accomplished nothing in his life. And then they married disreputable, unsuitable and clearly manipulative low-grade wives who were going to milk them dry for all they could. If the world saw Bill and Harry clearly and for who they really are, they would see two highly-dysfunctional, spoiled and rather talentless party boys who can barely function in civilized society. They cannot blame their parents fully for what and who they are now, because they made active choices NOT to move on and grow as individuals. They are both almost 40 for crying out loud. But, they were still failed early on, and shouldn't have been indulged the way they obviously were. And yes, thinking Diana's problems played a much bigger role than they should have. And no matter what Charles did or didn't do, that wouldn't have changed things much. Diana came from a more dysfunctional background, and her sons absorbed the ways their mother "coped", and not in a good way. They never broke the pattern, really.No responsibility for their lives, ANYWHERE! They are owed the life-long ride on their mother's memory. The permanent life-long crutch.
I find it ironic that in Diana's eyes, Charles was good only for paying the bills and serving as her resident scapegoat. Granted he created a charity that helps thousands, established a real sincere work structure for a Crown Prince instead of just waffling along idly, and made something of substance of himself, but he was never good enough for her to promote (the very JOB of a Consort) and never good enough to appreciate in terms of all the people he helped year in and year out, and then the lovable eccentricities that he has in regards to his personality. You would think that a prince like that would be a national treasure, but no, that was never good enough for Miss Diana who was too stupid to realize that she could afford to go on her little girl power trips, mainly because she had the BRF and her 'boring' husband footing her bills to pay for her outfits and her travel where she would make her asinine speeches. I find it hard to believe that she would have had that platform if not for her marriage and quite frankly she seemed to regard Charles as a sugar daddy, not a real husband who did deserve respect. Charles was not supposed to be Diana's life coach or her social worker or her marital therapist. Charles did what he could with the information that he had and he wasn't responsible for her mental problems. Every single biographer (Except Andrew Morton) admits that bulimia isn't caused by a bad marriage, but is in fact caused by her early childhood problems. It wasn't the role or Charles or even his adultery with Camilla that was the root cause of her problems and it is clear that the BRF did try to get her help and did all they could (within reason) to help her adjust and adapt.
She was NEVER left to figure it all out on her own and it is clear that she was only left alone during her free time and she wasn't mature or responsible enough to fill it in constructively. She was NOT owed tiem that was already scheduled by others and there was no way that Charles should have to drop all his responsibilities just to amuse Diana or 'daddy' Diana. He could not be her father and he had obligations. There is no reason that he should have to drop everything. I also think that tarring the entire BRF and monarchical system via Andrew Morton was treason in itself and I am sick of hearing about how she 'didn't know the royal ways' despite her frequent contact with that family throughout childhood and throughout her teen years. Parties with the princes and Princess Anne and then there were so many others. Not to mention the balls and dinner parties and hunting weekends. No excuse for any of it. Then she let the media cross lines that were there to protect from the press being inappropriately invasive and I also believe that Diana NEVER should have brainwashed columnists into thinking that they were her sincere friends or that her sons were their friends or that the columnists were proxy guardians of the welfare of the princes.
As for being party boys, I wonder if both idiots were ever aware that the money they spent was NOT their money, but was taxpayer cash and it is PATHETIC that men their age wanted to live with their father rather than establish their own independent households at the earliest opportunity. I mean really, nearly thirty and they wanted to live under their father's roof.
I hope Charles and Camilla are glad as well. They sought out a stupid fool and got one and now their entire way of life is about to end. Mark my words, that was what started it all. Pity they didn't go for someone smart enough to appreciate the advantages of the position and would be kind of okay with adultery as long as she was secure in her marital position.
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Post by Admin on May 31, 2021 0:08:40 GMT
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Post by Admin on May 31, 2021 0:12:50 GMT
Aside: You should maybe take a good hard look at Council Carol, Camilla, and the hate the M#ddletons have allegedly been spewing about Diana for YEARS. "jimmyallenby", Cammy?
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Post by Admin on May 31, 2021 12:50:12 GMT
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Post by kueifei on Jun 1, 2021 6:37:16 GMT
Piers is coming across as a seriously disturbed creep. First, Diana was not Piers' friend and second, I do sympathize with Meg that Piers is equally unhealthily fixated on her as well. Even on D-listed, Meg was supported and sympathized with by posters when there was an article on there about Piers being kind of fixated on targeting Meg in the media. I also think that Diana was a moron to think that she would get away with toying with the media and not getting burned; she also made the mistake of letting the press get WAY too involved in her personal life in regards to her sons. The dolts at Celeb*tchy are right when they state that the British media is WAY too wrapped up in the royal princes. I do wish Diana had maintained her distance and also had the brains NOT to trust the press on a personal basis and should NEVER have befriended members of the press on such a personal basis.
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Post by Admin on Jun 1, 2021 12:15:44 GMT
Piers is coming across as a seriously disturbed creep. First, Diana was not Piers' friend and second, I do sympathize with Meg that Piers is equally unhealthily fixated on her as well. Even on D-listed, Meg was supported and sympathized with by posters when there was an article on there about Piers being kind of fixated on targeting Meg in the media. I also think that Diana was a moron to think that she would get away with toying with the media and not getting burned; she also made the mistake of letting the press get WAY too involved in her personal life in regards to her sons. The dolts at Celeb*tchy are right when they state that the British media is WAY too wrapped up in the royal princes. I do wish Diana had maintained her distance and also had the brains NOT to trust the press on a personal basis and should NEVER have befriended members of the press on such a personal basis. Yes, I agree that there is a rather unhealthy fixation on ole Megs, but also I believe both sides were playing with fire, so to speak, and purely in it for themselves and what they could get out of it. When you use people as pawns and/or stepping stones, you kind of get what you pay for. Hard to call somebody up and pretend you are their friend, use them, and then cry foul when, surprise! surprise! things take a weird turn. I have next to zero sympathy for users of all stripes. I found Diana to be a hypocrite when she played concerned Mummy and asked the press to leave her sons alone. Well, you didn't have to call them up constantly, did you, Di?
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Post by Admin on Jun 1, 2021 13:11:26 GMT
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Post by Admin on Jun 1, 2021 13:13:06 GMT
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Post by kueifei on Jun 2, 2021 6:59:13 GMT
Diana isn't going to be any less dead if this is talked about. As for authenticity, it is clear that she was quite the little fake herself. She played the press and public and NEVER let go of being an ingenue. Second, who is Diana to demand anything out of the family that MADE her into the superstar that she became? I really dislike how Diana really did think that the BRF should just bend over for her and let her jerk all of them around. She did breathe new life, but she was the coming generation and she should have just chilled and waited her turn and decided to adhere to HM's preferences and enjoying being a huge star through no exceptional accomplishment of her own. She never should have thought that the BRF were inauthentic when she was slandering Charles' reputation day in and day out from the time she worked with Andrew Morton to the day she did Panorama. She was lying to all of them and hiding things and also just cheating just as much as Charles did only with more different members of the opposite sex. She had no business trashing her husband the way she did and she had no business pulling all that she did. I do sincerely think that she had a lot of gall making demands out of ANYONE after all she had handed to her, just by virtue of being the granddaughter of an Earl at birth and then the daughter of an Earl later on and then the sister of an Earl and then the princess consort of an Heir to a Throne. She then had two healthy sons who had secure lives and then was feted solely through giving birth and now we are all supposed to feel sorry for poor, pretty, rich Princess Diana.
After all she had, she just HAD to press the self destruct button by trying to destroy her husband and now after no decent man would have her (there are FEW who would want her after all her trouble-making) and we are supposed to feel pity for that as well. Diana for lack of a better way of putting it, was just plain stupid and was not at all functional. She wasn't smart and as non-christian as this sounds, I think the world is better off without her. IF she had not died, we would still be hearing about her 'miserable life' and she would be clearly still making one mess after another. She was on a horrible downward spiral near the end of her life (taking another umpteenth vacation) and she would never have really found her niche.
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Post by Admin on Jun 4, 2021 12:46:04 GMT
Aside: I forgot, the Spencers patterned proper parenting behaviour for generations, right? Nothing dysfunctional in that background?www.express.co.uk/news/royal/1445467/Prince-Charles-news-Princess-Diana-concerned-William-Harry-childhood-vnPrince Charles' upbringing 'concerned' Princess Diana over fears for William and Harry PRINCE Charles' stiff upper lip upbringing "concerned" Princess Diana as she sought to become a hands-on mother for their two young children. By HOLLY EVANS PUBLISHED: 12:41, Fri, Jun 4, 2021 | UPDATED: 12:41, Fri, Jun 4, 2021
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Post by kueifei on Jun 4, 2021 14:30:43 GMT
Bah, that Spencer family was always volatile and even at 29 Diana still identified as a much younger type. Also, HM had to work in her own way to justify WHY they had all those privileges. HM was working, a working mother (of a very pampered sort) and didn't have the ability to stay at home. Even IF she had not been Queen, I am certain that HM would have had to run a household and coddling Charles would not have been possible. Diana is surprisingly judgemental about HM and others despite all they handed to her. I also think that Diana was a double fool to think that after divorce she was entitled to any kind of position outside of that of ex-consort. As Princess of Wales, she already had a ceremonial ambassadorship and it is clear that she really did think she was entitled to have more after divorce. In all honesty, I would have given her the role of traitor and had her arse tried for treason for trying to overthrow the succession. I would have also made it clear that to receive Diana on any basis, even social, would be considered an unfriendly act.
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Post by Admin on Jun 4, 2021 17:30:07 GMT
Bah, that Spencer family was always volatile and even at 29 Diana still identified as a much younger type. Also, HM had to work in her own way to justify WHY they had all those privileges. HM was working, a working mother (of a very pampered sort) and didn't have the ability to stay at home. Even IF she had not been Queen, I am certain that HM would have had to run a household and coddling Charles would not have been possible. Diana is surprisingly judgemental about HM and others despite all they handed to her. I also think that Diana was a double fool to think that after divorce she was entitled to any kind of position outside of that of ex-consort. As Princess of Wales, she already had a ceremonial ambassadorship and it is clear that she really did think she was entitled to have more after divorce. In all honesty, I would have given her the role of traitor and had her arse tried for tr#ason for trying to overthrow the succession. I would have also made it clear that to receive Diana on any basis, even social, would be considered an unfriendly act. How any parent chooses to do their job is, at least in my opinion, off bounds to whom it's none of their concern. If a child was being harmed/abused/etc certainly there is a mor@l and/or legal obligation to step in and help, but calling foul on the choices and mothering skills of the Monarch? Of course her situation would be unique and hindsight is always 20/20. Diana shouldn't have been projecting her background or feelings out on Charles. Besides, nothing she could have done to go back and change things, right? She helped contribute to the situation with her sons (partly, of course) by seemingly not raising them to have any accountability for their choices/behaviours. Yes,and only partly because once you are 18 and older, you are really on your own and your choices are your own. We are seeing everything only too clearly now.
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Post by kueifei on Jun 5, 2021 1:34:03 GMT
THANK GOD everyone is seeing things as clearly as they do now. This forum is DREAM because it allows me to voice resentments that have been germinating for a VERY long time. Diana did marry WAY too young and there is NO EXCUSE for a teen kid to be married off to someone THAT old, NOT at nineteen, that is never right or fair and never will be. I also think that Diana did an inexcusable amount of damage. As a teen she did a WHOLE LOT as a consort and eventually did change her attitude towards her work, but thing is, in her mid-twenties, when she should have been maturing and accepting that she had more going for her than most EVER will, she didn't develop that kind of gratitude or mature perspective. As for Charles, for all the 'love' that Diana held, it is clear that Diana never really tried to see beneath the surface, she shared the same view of Charles as the media did and that view is highly superficial. Tina Brown also mentioned that Diana saw Charles as a work in aspic, while she saw herself as a work in progress, therefore Diana was supposedly the more 'progressive' one and knew more than the man who came before her in this world and who had given her everything she had from the title to the platform. I wonder if she took into consideration that if she worked half as hard for Charles' benefit as she did her own image, that Charles might in fact have ended up respecting her as an equal, a team player, rather than viewing her as a rival or a disruptive element in his life. Diana might have also been able to get the love she had been craving and been able to really grow and mature into someone healthier.
Imagine how different the relationship would have been if she had decided to spend hours in his office instead of with an astrologer. Or used the press to promote the Trust and Charles' work rather than her own angst. Imagine if she had worked full time as a Trust Ambassador and VP of the Trust (with Charles as President of course) and gotten a qualification/training as a social worker and maybe inspired who knows how many to do the same (get qualifications and suchlike) and ended up really gaining more and more. Tina Brown wrote about how Diana wanted to get documentaries made about certain issues and she would get educated for real on the topic and do a full presentation/documentary on it. If she had done that for AIDS as Princess of Wales, that kind of impact would have been priceless. Yet she chose not to. Not until she had scorched her own platform. Imagine just how much more substantial that role as Princess would have been. A HUGE standard would have been set for other consorts and she would be so much more focused and spending her energy on positive stuff rather than self destruction or destroying the lives of others. She would be a true player, a partner, not equal, but would be the foremost woman in Charles' life. Maybe over time she would have weaseled Camilla out of Charles' intimate life. Then her sons would have the example of two working parents and would step into charity work with ease and no real belief that there really is all that much out there for them (there isn't really). Diana was not a good example for her sons and it is clear to me that her fecklessness financed by others is what they viewed as normal and appropriate.
All Diana had to do was be conscious of the example she was setting her sons and she was not. She was not setting the example of stability and respectability, she was teaching them that a handful of hours ladling soup is enough and then it was okay to bug off on a vacation paid for by others. That it's enough to show up and entertain someone and not follow through. Everything Diana EVER had was always paid for by someone else and if Diana had been so charitable, she should have donated her entire fortune in her will to charities, rather than her sons.
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sanka
Count/Countess
Posts: 295
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Post by sanka on Jun 5, 2021 4:41:16 GMT
^ Well said kueifei. If Diana had spent her time actually doing something worthwhile she could have made a complete difference. Instead she didn't discipline her sons but rather let them do whatever they wanted and it is so obvious now that they are older. She meddled with the media and then complained about the media; complained about her life etc. There are so many people still idolising her without seeing truly what she was like (each to their own).
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Post by kueifei on Jun 5, 2021 12:24:47 GMT
You know, her bedding probably cost more than three times my monthly SSDI and it makes me frustrated that she really did think that she had a profession on par with work that didn't include a palace suite. I also resent that she didn't just feel sorry for herself (inexcusable enough), but DEMANDED that others feel sorry for her. HER pain, HER angst, HER whatever and she WANTED EVERYONE to pity her, while demanding the kind of respect that heads of state work decades to EARN! She was never a player and never would be. She had everything because of someone else's work sweat and she never had the decency of common sense to appreciate that.
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Post by Admin on Jun 5, 2021 14:13:20 GMT
You know, her bedding probably cost more than three times my monthly SSDI and it makes me frustrated that she really did think that she had a profession on par with work that didn't include a palace suite. I also resent that she didn't just feel sorry for herself (inexcusable enough), but DEMANDED that others feel sorry for her. HER pain, HER angst, HER whatever and she WANTED EVERYONE to pity her, while demanding the kind of respect that heads of state work decades to EARN! She was never a player and never would be. She had everything because of someone else's work sweat and she never had the decency of common sense to appreciate that. She was given a platform because of her marriage and nothing else, but failed to truly appreciate and use it to it's full potential. She over-worked the victim angle and her sons are just repeating this disreputable side of her personality/character. It's a pity they don't emulate her stronger or more giving virtues, but sadly, even those seemed to be overrun near the end of her life. And her sons seemed to have married very unworthy, unsuitable and low-grade women who (with their families) wanted to capitalize on their weaknesses and manipulate them to world acclaim/fame themselves. There would have been no Middletons or even Markles if Diana was more of a strong mother type, and less of somebody wanting to be a pal/friend to her children.
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Post by kueifei on Jun 5, 2021 14:25:59 GMT
You know, her bedding probably cost more than three times my monthly SSDI and it makes me frustrated that she really did think that she had a profession on par with work that didn't include a palace suite. I also resent that she didn't just feel sorry for herself (inexcusable enough), but DEMANDED that others feel sorry for her. HER pain, HER angst, HER whatever and she WANTED EVERYONE to pity her, while demanding the kind of respect that heads of state work decades to EARN! She was never a player and never would be. She had everything because of someone else's work sweat and she never had the decency of common sense to appreciate that. She was given a platform because of her marriage and nothing else, but failed to truly appreciate and use it to it's full potential. She over-worked the victim angle and her sons are just repeating this disreputable side of her personality/character. It's a pity they don't emulate her stronger or more giving virtues, but sadly, even those seemed to be overrun near the end of her life. And her sons seemed to have married very unworthy, unsuitable and low-grade women who (with their families) wanted to capitalize on their weaknesses and manipulate them to world acclaim/fame themselves. There would have been no Middletons or even Markles if Diana was more of a strong mother type, and less of somebody wanting to be a pal/friend to her children.
For a work ethic and other traits, it has to be there, not just hyped. Diana was hyped as rather a lot of things, but she was NOT someone who was embodying them. If she had been tougher, she would have done all I suggested, plus realized that as consort, the legitimate wife and true Princess of Wales, that she would always wear the best tiaras, wear the best gowns, wear the most ancestral jewels, plus she would likelier than not even be able to take open shots at her via the press/public. She would always be almost at the head of the procession at state events and even then, Camilla wouldn't be there because of her very rank as gentry, not nobility. She was already slated to be Queen Consort and was already living the ultimate good life, financed by others who were brainwashed to believe that they were HAPPY to pay her titled carcass out of their own work sweat. So really, this is insane to think that she had it rough. Diana did not display the maturity and character of a good parent and she had no business raising her sons to believe it was their duty to look after their mother. It wasn't and never will be.
As for Charles, he really did end up getting ripped apart like Diana since like most narcissists, it was likely excruciating for her to realize that after the divorce, Charles would go on to be King and that the world would not end after she was gone. A narcissist is deadly when they come to realize that the world, or the world of the person that they are with, will not end after they are gone. They are more than happy to make trouble and drama, but FREAK OUT when they realize that the life of the person they are with will not end after they are gone. After Diana did Panorama and there was the separation, Tina Brown wrote that Diana was oddly delusional about the "terminal state of her marriage and was upset to hear that Camilla was going to get a diamond necklace and she, Diana, was going to get a paste jewel set." I mean after all she pulled, after the marriage was on its way out, Diana really did believe that she would still get nice stuff from a husband whose reputation she had just blasted to shreds. She really did think that Charles would buy her something extravagant (that she was used to no less) and forget about her actions. Then after the divorce that she, Diana, had been pushing the Queen into ordering, was surprised that Charles threw out all their stuff they had shared as a married couple and started spending time with Camilla. Despite the fact that she was not abstinent herself, Diana was actually outraged that Charles was over her the minute the marriage was officially over. I mean really, she thought that her divorce was a great beginning and for some reason, Diana was the only one who was allowed to move on and what then? Was Charles supposed to remain single and miserable and left behind?
I sincerely think that if Diana had lived and Charles became king, say, ten or even 20 years after the divorce, that Diana would have been seething in rage. She is not at all someone who would have learned to accept that she was no longer what she was when she was married and it is clear that she was someone who was in fact becoming obsolete. After Clinton and Blair, after Mitterrand or Chirac, the most recent set of politicians would have no time for her. They would not likely get impatient or frustrated and the most recent media structure would not have been as easy to manipulate or control and I believe that she would have struggled BIG TIME to retain the status as martyr or victim and her princess-hood would have been a shell, not substance. Being famous for being famous is a freak act mainly since she would have had nothing but victim-hood to stand on. With how a lot of people are these days, there is no way that she would continue to be a credible victim, especially if she were caught out all the time tipping the press off. People would get sick of a hyper-privileged fifty or sixty year old woman whining about her childhood or long ended marriage and she would have devolved into being a sideshow. After ten or so years, hearing about Diana whining about her lot in life or jerking the press around would have worn thin with a world suffering one economic blow after another.
Imagine if Diana had been sailing a yacht with a guy paying her way whining about her latest inner turmoil while the rest of the world freaks out over the Madoff scandal or the latest economic shock wave that wipes out pensions. Or the student loan crisis and Diana spouts about how her husband is a dolt or Diana gets caught leaking while suing the press for the ten millionth time.
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Post by Admin on Jun 18, 2021 12:32:25 GMT
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Post by kueifei on Jun 18, 2021 15:02:22 GMT
Or maybe she kind of realized that Charles is the best that she was going to have and other better types were already taken. It's not like there were TONS of guys who were rich, powerful, and attractive and single at the same time. There was no way that a prince of any house would have her at risk off offending the BRF and it's not like there were TONS of guys like Charles or anyone else out there. Charles was a rat for going after a nineteen year old, he NEVER should have been bound by such archaic values, but he had no business placing pressure on a 19 year old KID to mature at a rate that for anyone at any age, is literally impossible. She was clearly in over her head and second, she was not equipped for such elderly company and was not going to develop healthily if she were going to be disrupted in growing out into the world as she should have been. A HUGE contribution to her mental health problems was the fact that she was being stuck pressured into conforming into a meek, docile, know-nothing breeder instead of working on developing her mind and she was not at all being instructed in things like practical academic topics like university level stuff that would have enriched her mind and supplied her with the intellectual resources needed to handle someone like Charles. Then there was the pressure to develop inward rather than outward and there was no reason that she should have been expected to be perpetually-passive and submissive and constantly intimidated. It's not natural and it is NOT right that she was expected to put up with a mistress. I am sympathetic to Camilla, but NO ONE has the right to make moves on a married man EVER or expect the WIFE to accept it. Zero, at all excuse.
If not for the Victorian conformity, I am certain that she would have developed better and would have MAYBE had a chance at being able to really develop better and be healthier. I also sincerely think that if she had been forcibly hospitalized for treatment, instead of being allowed to run wild, she would have been able to have a breakdown in a place where people are trained and equipped to handle things like that. I also think she would have been better off if she had been better raised to make good use of her time, she would have been more resourceful at an earlier age. There really is no actual substitute for being taught to seek and obtain help as needed and to NOT waste time or engage in self destructive acts. Her biggest failure was in her parenting as well.
I also think Tina Brown was inaccurate in saying that Charles was too archaic in terms of his upbringing. A TON of upper class American kids are raised to wear suits and defer to their elders and we have kids in private schools who wear suits as kids and shoot cuffs and go on hunting trips and wear styled hair even as kids. Nothing strange about it, just not publicized. Diana knew that world and it irritates the HECK out of me that she put up a front of being a working class princess and how she 'knew' what it was to basically suffer and go through a lot of the same things. I do not believe that and I never will. She did NOT experience a struggle to pay bills and she did NOT struggle to find good schooling for her sons. She was never without advocates and she was never someone who worried about her next meal. She was also someone who never struggled to be treated with respect, much less as a human being and she was not someone who really paid a high price in terms of having to make hard choices. She didn't really sacrifice anything other than privacy outside of walking outside palace walls, but Diana trashed her own privacy time and time again.
I find it intriguing that she wanted a man who was able to shoulder her, but she offered not much in return. It is telling that the quality of men after Charles were in fact much less. There was Hasnat Khan, but even then, he was slated to marry a fellow Pakistani, not a Western wife who would NEVER be able to live life in a compound in Lahore. Then there is the fact that she was still living a directionless, unstable life.
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