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Post by kueifei on Feb 19, 2021 19:05:50 GMT
If there is ever another princess with star quality, here is hoping that she ends up being able to direct it responsibly since ultimately, it will be up to her what direction she puts that star-power in. Quite honestly, here is hoping that she grows up beyond being a new-comer ingenue. Grace never grew beyond certain childlike traits and really either did Diana. She never grew beyond (Diana) being an ingenue and regrettably that led to a lot of misery and trouble in the end.
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Post by purple1 on Feb 19, 2021 20:19:41 GMT
If there is ever another princess with star quality, here is hoping that she ends up being able to direct it responsibly since ultimately, it will be up to her what direction she puts that star-power in. Quite honestly, here is hoping that she grows up beyond being a new-comer ingenue. Grace never grew beyond certain childlike traits and really either did Diana. She never grew beyond (Diana) being an ingenue and regrettably that led to a lot of misery and trouble in the end. I agree. So basically if a new princess arrived and had that magnetic star quality she should direct it to good use where in turn she will probably her respect and affectionately be the princess of hearts? |
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Post by kueifei on Feb 20, 2021 1:58:41 GMT
Yes, hopefully minus being self-destructive. I also think that royals should be under some kind of tailored guardianship that makes sure that royals are not pressurized or manipulated into marriage. I think if William had been under guardianship of some kind, that the press and Kate would not have gotten away with the nonstop pressure to marry Kate. It would have been put a stop to as well as William being prevented from getting into bed with Kate. I do not think William was equipped to deal with people who do not take 'no' from an answer. Royals simply do not always know how to make the right choices when it comes to relationships. It's not like royals don't have horrific pressure and a lack of access to social media would do them a world of good.
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Post by purple1 on Feb 20, 2021 2:41:36 GMT
Yes, hopefully minus being self-destructive. I also think that royals should be under some kind of tailored guardianship that makes sure that royals are not pressurized or manipulated into marriage. I think if William had been under guardianship of some kind, that the press and Kate would not have gotten away with the nonstop pressure to marry Kate. It would have been put a stop to as well as William being prevented from getting into bed with Kate. I do not think William was equipped to deal with people who do not take 'no' from an answer. Royals simply do not always know how to make the right choices when it comes to relationships. It's not like royals don't have horrific pressure and a lack of access to social media would do them a world of good. Because they have been spoiled all there lives and never told no!! That’s why!! But royalty and their titles if you don’t care about the people and don’t work then we in turn will not care about you. At this point it’s a novelty act. So I personally think if a new princess arrives I think she will be a breathe of fresh air not only to her country but also the idea of royalty and being a princess and setting a new ideal/standard on how a princess should conduct which will set a new precedents. |
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Post by purple1 on Feb 20, 2021 18:35:34 GMT
Was Diana really the princess of hearts?
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Post by india on Feb 20, 2021 18:45:16 GMT
Yes she was. None of those Windsors could ever be.
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Post by purple1 on Feb 20, 2021 20:19:49 GMT
Yes she was. None of those Windsors could ever be. Agreed even as much as Kate wants to. Was Grace a Princess of Hearts too? |
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Post by india on Feb 20, 2021 20:20:37 GMT
No, not like Diana.
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Post by kueifei on Feb 20, 2021 21:01:01 GMT
Yes she was. None of those Windsors could ever be. Agreed even as much as Kate wants to. Was Grace a Princess of Hearts too?
Grace was kind of a superficial version; Grace was not someone who did half the work giving people with AIDS a humanity and voice that Diana did. Diana really delved in and whatever happened later in life, she did more than just party in Persepolis and she did encourage young women to think beyond a man and not make the mistakes she did. Grace fronted as if she never made any mistakes or missteps or did anything like make a living before becoming a princess. I resent how Grace disliked career women mainly since a career is how Rainier even knew she existed in the first place. I also resent how she never ordered her daughter to get a good education and actual qualifications so Caroline would make more of herself than an idle rich girl with a title. Grace was a terrible narcissist as well and I hate how she dissed American schools as having dope in their institutions, as if she herself had always been so pure (despite screwing a friend's husband at age nineteen). Such a slap in the face to the US and quite frankly, if not for American schools, we wouldn't have a lot of inventions now would we? Grace was a class-A snob and was someone who deliberately restricted herself and her daughters to eternal uselessness. Grace gets under my skin since she, like a lot of her ilk, just LOVE to mistreat those who aren't WASP upper class, but have no real respect for good honest people who come from good honest families. Grace was obsessed with areas that were already established and Diana liked those who were making something of themselves.
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Post by purple1 on Feb 20, 2021 21:26:33 GMT
Agreed even as much as Kate wants to. Was Grace a Princess of Hearts too?
Grace was kind of a superficial version; Grace was not someone who did half the work giving people with AIDS a humanity and voice that Diana did. Diana really delved in and whatever happened later in life, she did more than just party in Persepolis and she did encourage young women to think beyond a man and not make the mistakes she did. Grace fronted as if she never made any mistakes or missteps or did anything like make a living before becoming a princess. I resent how Grace disliked career women mainly since a career is how Rainier even knew she existed in the first place. I also resent how she never ordered her daughter to get a good education and actual qualifications so Caroline would make more of herself than an idle rich girl with a title. Grace was a terrible narcissist as well and I hate how she dissed American schools as having dope in their institutions, as if she herself had always been so pure (despite screwing a friend's husband at age nineteen). Such a slap in the face to the US and quite frankly, if not for American schools, we wouldn't have a lot of inventions now would we? Grace was a class-A snob and was someone who deliberately restricted herself and her daughters to eternal uselessness. Grace gets under my skin since she, like a lot of her ilk, just LOVE to mistreat those who aren't WASP upper class, but have no real respect for good honest people who come from good honest families. Grace was obsessed with areas that were already established and Diana liked those who were making something of themselves.
I don’t know she was great friends with Josephine Baker and when a club wouldn’t allow her in, Grace said she would never return there again and she stood by her words so I have to disagree with her only liking upper class people. How can you be a superficial princess of hearts? I guess she didn’t do as much as Diana(SO TRUE) but she did more than enough during her era and the people and everywhere she went adored her for some reason. Caroline by all accounts was a rebel and hard headed and wanted to do what she wanted. She still got an education and by all accounts her professor said she took someone else’s place to get into university. |
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Post by kueifei on Feb 20, 2021 21:41:25 GMT
Grace was a climber, Diana was in a way, but Diana was raised with a very specific dynastic duty. Grace was not.
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Post by purple1 on Feb 20, 2021 21:57:37 GMT
Grace was a climber, Diana was in a way, but Diana was raised with a very specific dynastic duty. Grace was not. Sad if Grace did what Diana had done I think she would have been the “perfect” princess and not seen as an actress turned princess but just known as a princess. |
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Post by kueifei on Feb 20, 2021 23:16:35 GMT
She would. Thing is, if Grace had been from a more prominent background, socially, she would have been more appreciate of the feminist ideology and would have been less of a whiner. She was someone who failed in a lot of areas and she was nothing special. If she had been, it would have ended up being pretty different and raising her daughters better. Grace regressed because she wanted to be part of that regressive world. The world of WASP upper class set and was raised by her parents to be socially ambitious as well as successful. She did all she could to kiss the feet of people who kicked dirt in the faces of other people and she could have done more if she had been less fixated on carving a role for herself socially as Princess of the World. Monaco was not enough for her and ironically, Diana only became more global after she was overthrown by Camilla and quite frankly, Diana already had a position readied for her after her divorce. She wasn't entirely in a good place after her death, but she was someone who had done her best and things just went horribly wrong along the way up until the divorce. Diana reached out only after she was thrown out, but Grace spent so much of her time reaching out to the much wider world at the expense of her marriage. Grace wanted her daughter Caroline to marry into an established royal house and make Grace's dynastic ambitions more concrete, but thing is, that Grace did that for herself, not for the sake of her daughter. She did not encourage her daughter to independently reach out to the wider world and did not at all encourage her oldest daughter to focus on anything other than her title. Not on getting a concrete education/qualifications, but in finding a 'good match.' Like most children of a narcissist, she reacted and not always in a good way. Grace wasn't doing it for the well being of Caroline, her main focus was how SHE (Grace) looked as a parent/princess, not being an actual involved parent. Caroline was predictably energetic while young and so ended up being a little wild and Grace wanted to get her married as if Caroline had no other right to any kind of life other than a few years of plush living and then a 'good marriage.' Grace never encouraged her kids to live a life of purpose and Albert was under his father's control since he was a toddler.
The celebrity fixation on image is the kind of value that is supposed to contrast completely with the royal traits of substance.
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Post by purple1 on Feb 20, 2021 23:27:17 GMT
I agree Grace by all accounts wasn’t the best mother and wasn’t as close to Caroline. I think she spoiled Stephanie too much though. Her favorite by all accounts was Albert. She shouldn’t have told Caroline not to go to university. Caroline married a playboy guy though so that’s on her. I don’t think Grace wanted to be more accepted since after her wedding she gradually got respect from the very same people who paid her dust at her wedding.
“ she could have done more if she had been less fixated on carving a role for herself socially as Princess of the World. Monaco was not enough for her and ironically, Diana only became more global after she was overthrown by Camilla ”
- I always assumed Diana was always global. She was the most famous and photographed woman of her time.
You think Grace wanted to be Princess of the world? Diana did too though.
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Post by purple1 on Feb 21, 2021 20:22:09 GMT
I personally thought royalty was better than celebrities but since entering the 21st century they are both the same.
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Post by kueifei on Feb 21, 2021 22:28:36 GMT
I agree Grace by all accounts wasn’t the best mother and wasn’t as close to Caroline. I think she spoiled Stephanie too much though. Her favorite by all accounts was Albert. She shouldn’t have told Caroline not to go to university. Caroline married a playboy guy though so that’s on her. I don’t think Grace wanted to be more accepted since after her wedding she gradually got respect from the very same people who paid her dust at her wedding. “ she could have done more if she had been less fixated on carving a role for herself socially as Princess of the World. Monaco was not enough for her and ironically, Diana only became more global after she was overthrown by Camilla ” - I always assumed Diana was always global. She was the most famous and photographed woman of her time.
You think Grace wanted to be Princess of the world? Diana did too though.
She was global in the media, but it wasn't until she had had two sons and had established herself in the UK that she was able to really venture out on her own, to become a figure in her own right. She really did have to make herself a figure in the UK, anchor herself professionally and otherwise; it wasn't until I think after Harry was born that Diana was given a longer leash and not just walking two steps behind Charles. Grace on the other hand was given freer reign, but she was at a point where she wanted so badly to be accepted by the older royal houses, not the principalities. I think she wanted too badly to be accepted by the Windsors and Grace did sit Princess Anne with a nephew of hers (by marriage) and that failed; then there was Caroline and Charles, but that did not work out. Grace was desperate for the kind of acceptance that only a parvenu craves; Diana started firmly in the UK, did her duty, and after providing two fine sons, ended up going out more in her own right, but she (Diana) was reaching out to a more global connection as consort, but more in her own right and under her own steam. Grace WAS trying to get the Windsors to accept her as one of their own, just as she was with the rest of the royalty of the world, but it ended up being a 'bad draw' mainly since the Shah was overthrown and the Windsors were initially not going to send anyone to represent them at Grace's funeral.
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Post by purple1 on Feb 21, 2021 23:08:07 GMT
The Windsors need to get off their high horses now look at them! Who would have though! Secondly Grace should have known she was automatically the most famous princess in the world and should of focused on more charity work and of course representing Mónaco everywhere she went. She would have been accepted that she so craved because at the end of the day public opinions matter more. That makes sense about Diana. She became more global when she went on her own esp on tours on behalf of her charities. She was truly the queen of hearts. A shame Grace could have been princess of hearts  |
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Post by kueifei on Feb 21, 2021 23:52:47 GMT
If she had ended up promoting Monaco and making her husband happy and doing big stuff for charity, it would have cemented her in a way that would have given her the stature she craved. She indulged in angst and self destruction, but she most certainly did not indulge in making some kind of life that would bring something more than tourism to Monaco. Quite honestly, if I had been Princess of Monaco, I would have lived it up and NEVER complained to anyone other than a priest or psychotherapist. I NEVER would have mouthed off about my kids or if I missed acting, I would have produced films and nurtured others into becoming famous or at least having opportunities of their own. I find it irritating that Grace wanted to be a star so badly even after she had the title of Princess Consort and didn't have to bow to anyone. She had no right to complain about being a reigning Princess Consort at 26. I mean really, it's pathetic. All that and after decorating (in the most pretentious way possible) she ends up moping around.
Thing with celebs, they thrive on excitement and drama and Grace was no different. Up to the wedding preparations, Grace was riding WAY high and likely got a huge high off of all the fuss and I believe that it was one of the biggest highs of her life. She literally likely crashed later on like the same way a junkie crashes after getting high and therefore freaked out and sought out more. I think the inherent self destruction came from repeated acts that were not good for her, but provided that high that she needed. The affairs, the drink, maybe eating binges, she was never really capable of getting control of herself. If you look at her promiscuous past, you will see someone who was trying to keep herself on that 'high.' Look at celebrity activists who need to go out and get worked up over something, anything and it is clear that Grace was the same way. Addicted to the 'high' of either publicity or drama. Look at Clooney or DiCaprio and it makes me nutzo that they can't just chill and enjoy the great life they have. It's frustrating since as a normal person, I would prefer to have a stable society and these celebs keep screwing everything up.
Royals are not supposed to be unstable or flaky or hysterical about everything. Up until a certain point, Diana was a conventional royal consort and was fundamentally (at least in terms of life and work) stable and conventional. It was not until LATER in her life when she started getting terribly unstable and addicted to drama. I honestly think that celebritization of non-Hollywood and royalty has done terrible damage. Modern royals are horribly under-educated for the kind of power they want so badly and the 'fairytale' is not at all good for anyone. It's been used so often that it's a complete waste.
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Post by purple1 on Feb 22, 2021 1:41:37 GMT
I agree with you Grace was probably on a high up to the wedding preparations. I think anyone in her shoes would be. Becoming a reigning princess, having the “  tale” wedding, getting the most press she has ever had all over the world, being the most famous princess of her time. I agree she looked her happiest during the road to her wedding. Afterwards the reality dawn on her and she was bored. I agree I wouldn’t have complained about not acting. Her life was/is better than majority of the world. Like you said if she done more charity work and done a lot more for Mónaco that’s effective than your usual tourism/spreading goodwill, it would have cemented herself as THE princess standard and she would have gotten the respect she craved from those royal sets. It’s a shame because I think everything you have said if she had done it, she would have been the blueprint of how a princess should conduct/act. Diana set a mold that’s extremely unsurpassable. She’s The most famous princess of all time and no one can be like her. She and Grace had star quality but Diana used it better for the betterment of others. “ I honestly think that celebritization of non-Hollywood and royalty has done terrible damage. Modern royals are horribly under-educated for the kind of power they want so badly and the 'fairytale' is not at all good for anyone. It's been used so often that it's a complete waste. ” - As humans we like to celebrate royalty back in those days and those stars of the 50s/60s were treated as royalty because they were “stars”. But you’re right the celebritization of it all is not healthy if one can’t handle it. The fairytale aspect is how you look at it. It’s a mindset thing in my opinion. |
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Post by kueifei on Feb 22, 2021 2:13:41 GMT
To me it's all about downtime; it is clear that entertainers sometimes do not know what to do with themselves and I think it is horrific how unstable a lot of them are, how they NEED to be in front of a camera or indulging in some drama or getting worked up about something they are not qualified to handle.
Diana set a mold that’s extremely unsurpassable. She’s The most famous princess of all time and no one can be like her. She and Grace had star quality but Diana used it better for the betterment of others.
No one can be like Diana because Diana was simply Diana; she was who she was and no one should try to be like her or imitate her. No one could be a Lady Diana Spencer, or a Diana, Princess of Wales. She was who she was. Grace lost herself because she worked hard at being the epitome of a prototypical upper class socialite and she never was. She had the stereotypical looks, but not the actuality. Grace thought that image, a certain image, should come with status. If we had that view though, no upper class socialite would be unattractive or even a brunette. Jackie O. was the real deal and she was not Icelandic in that she had Aryan looks. She was the real American deal though and it is clear that she surpassed Grace in the area of class. She encouraged her daughter to get schooling/qualifications and Caroline has been engaged in public service ever since.
Grace was everything but herself. Grace went into Hollywood with the attitude that she was a lady compared to the 'rest of the tramps' and she resented the sexualization of herself, but she went into Hollywood where a body is used as currency. She kept trying to be oh so upper class, but she was no different, she was just privileged. Her time at New York in the Barbazon was one of fun and doing clean wholesome stuff and she never even had to deal with parking meters. After she married into Monaco, she aped the Victorian hairstyles and was determined to be as antiseptic as possible. She wanted to regress rather than progress. Unlike Diana, Grace never gave her kids space of their own to grow.
Her life was/is better than majority of the world. Like you said if she done more charity work and done a lot more for Mónaco that’s effective than your usual tourism/spreading goodwill, it would have cemented herself as THE princess standard and she would have gotten the respect she craved from those royal sets.
If she had made Monaco a more cultural center by promoting stuff like I said she should, she could have really ended up with the kind of artsy status that she craved and she was someone who never learned to rely on herself for her own amusement. It makes me irritated hearing about how she would swizzle the champagne and gorge on caviar and wear Dior or who knows what else and then pretend that she had a hard lot in life just because she didn't get to act in films where she would be expected to do stuff that is objectionable to anyone who is the wife of any head of state. Xi Jinping's wife used to be an actress, but you don't hear about her wanting to return to the stage. Don't get be started on the diamonds Grace got. It gets more than frustrating. She chose social ambition over her career and this really isn't something that she was forced into. Maybe parental approval, but she still could have walked away.
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