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Post by kueifei on Feb 9, 2021 6:24:51 GMT
They loved Grace, but they liked her in a way that they like outsiders. If Grace had tried to be a prototypical French princess, or had tried to marry a French prince instead of a Monegasque one, their attitude would have been different. Grace was liked as an oddity, an entertaining outsider, not as one of their own. France admires and respects actors and actresses and the craft of acting, but realistically, they would have had a seizure if a Frenchman who was not an actor had married Grace. There has always been a line drawn against entertainers. In the US, we love our Hollywood, but the social reality is, that if a daughter came home and said she wanted to marry, say, Leonardo DiCaprio, and Leonardo himself was in fact holding her hands as she announced it, the parents would have a panic attack and do ALL they could do dissuade their daughter from marrying him since there would be a HUGE risk of instability and divorce and there is a huge social prejudice against actors and actresses as spouses. Thing is, that if a young man brought home an A-list actress and told his parents that he wanted to marry her, the parents would likely either exile him or lock him in a lunatic asylum. Grace, for all her image of being an upper crust ice princess, was NOT upper class in the purest sense of the world and she was never going to be that except by marriage. The French would have burned down Versailles instead of allowing Grace to end up being a French princess and if a prince were insane enough to want to marry her, his parents would have locked him up and threatened Grace with who-knows-what in order to get rid of her.
Monaco was an exception and the reason (I think) that Monaco received her rather than France is that Monaco was a place with a bad reputation. Monaco was (and still is) loaded with types of people where the money is not entirely clean and it was (and is) a gambling hub where a lot of bad types like to party. Kind of like Hollywood really. Dirty money, really. It is not a place where you can hang out with people that you know are not bad types and Grace herself was not entirely 'clean' either. She herself had a history of promiscuity that was out of line, even in Hollywood and I do hold the view that because of her behavior, no decent man in the States would have her and so she was kind of stuck marrying overseas. I do not think that Grace would have been welcomed as a princess consort anywhere else and I think that her later behavior justified a lot of the prejudices. After the marriage she started being as Victorian as possible and it is a shame that she never really 'got it' that she was just princess consort of a tiny principality and her later yearning for a career in acting again is something that I kind of dislike. She never really developed the kind of emotional and psychological stamina that a genuine royal needs and her airs and graces and PR BS was something that I do not think was at all appropriate. If she had been more laid back and fixated less on image and more on raising her kids right, maybe she would have been more fulfilled and less unhealthy. The thing with a lot of actors and actresses is that they are often unable to stop talking to the press, even when there is no need for it at all. Grace would just not chill and stop being all over the media.
To me, the mindset is very significantly different. Most royals (and non-entertainers) do not feel the need to be on camera because they do not believe that they do not exist if they are not in front of a camera or being recorded. They develop themselves and their minds off camera and it is clear that it leads to a better healthy mindset. Entertainers however, many of them, actually seem to flake out if they are not in the spotlight. Look at George Clooney who hijacks every since major event to put himself in the spotlight and quite honestly, ticks people off. They do not understand 'process' and regrettably the late Princess of Wales was kind of the same. She regrettably did not know just how everything around her in her life came together (how things were scheduled and pulled together) and this is something that the 'modern' royals have problems with as well.
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Post by purple1 on Feb 9, 2021 14:47:49 GMT
Wow it seems like you really dislike Grace. To me she was one of the best and perfect princesses who did the job fine. The fact that many royals and heads of states attended her funeral compared to when they didn’t show up for her wedding proves how much respect they had for her and she did a great job. Personal life is personal life, I’m more focused on the public life. She did great IMO. Also even married to Rainier Grace was still affectionately loved by the French. It seemed from what I’ve read they kind of “took her” as one of their own. Similarly, Diana was also LOVED by the French. Honestly speaking she was loved everywhere and people just wanted her to be their princess in their home country! The impact was immense!
Secondly, Mónaco to me is like you said has a dirty image. I really don’t understand why the Mónaco family act so much like celebrities and act they way they do with their jet set lifestyle. I had high hopes for Charlotte but I guess that was me wanting her to be like Caroline.
Now Kate Middleton is someone I truly do not understand. She literally has the world at her feet but doesn’t want to do anything. It’s why I will always see her more as a celebrity Royal.
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Post by kueifei on Feb 9, 2021 19:29:22 GMT
Kate wanted to be taken care of and escape the wider world, not embrace it. Kate wanted out of the work world, to get away from it since her mother raised her with the belief that if she worked, had a sincere career, that she would be low as dirt (which is a reflection of Carole's own self-loathing) and so as a result, flees from the world. If Kate were to accept her role, in full, it would mean that she would have to accept that she has a past and is an adult, is not a child, is not an ingenue, and is not a perfect innocent with no knowledge of the world. I honestly think that Kate is so determined to create a history of always having belonged in the upper echelons that she doesn't need to really do charity work and when she does, she wants to know that she is doing it as a favor, as a duty, not something that she actually wants to do. It is clear now that she does duty only to get released to go jet setting and it is clear that she does this whne she has to smooth over her PR and muzzle her critics for a while. Pity since if she had worked like crazy, she would have cemented her position in a way that was in fact likely to even inspire her husband to treat her with more respect.
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Post by purple1 on Feb 9, 2021 19:36:12 GMT
Kate wanted to be taken care of and escape the wider world, not embrace it. Kate wanted out of the work world, to get away from it since her mother raised her with the belief that if she worked, had a sincere career, that she would be low as dirt (which is a reflection of Carole's own self-loathing) and so as a result, flees from the world. If Kate were to accept her role, in full, it would mean that she would have to accept that she has a past and is an adult, is not a child, is not an ingenue, and is not a perfect innocent with no knowledge of the world. I honestly think that Kate is so determined to create a history of always having belonged in the upper echelons that she doesn't need to really do charity work and when she does, she wants to know that she is doing it as a favor, as a duty, not something that she actually wants to do. It is clear now that she does duty only to get released to go jet setting and it is clear that she does this whne she has to smooth over her PR and muzzle her critics for a while. Pity since if she had worked like crazy, she would have cemented her position in a way that was in fact likely to even inspire her husband to treat her with more respect. So what do you think will happen? It seems like she gets away with everything which isn’t fair but I don’t think she will since the public is becoming less and less interested in the monarchy and her in general. |
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Post by kueifei on Feb 9, 2021 19:53:10 GMT
IU think deep down, the reason she gets away with it, is because the BRF no longer cares about her anymore. They gave her a chance letting her in that marriage, but she did not take that chance and so now the BRF likely just views her as this odd little addendum to their lives that they want to have walk away and stop mooching off of them. She did not at all really contribute to the well being of the BRF or nation and if she had worked and contributed, she would eventually be embraced, but instead she went on this joyride and wrecked careers, reputations, and yes, undermined the credibility of the entire monarchical system. She also trashed the historical Diamond Jubilee and turned it into a complete trashfest and just for that alone, she should have been made to suffer for it.
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Post by purple1 on Feb 9, 2021 20:11:15 GMT
IU think deep down, the reason she gets away with it, is because the BRF no longer cares about her anymore. They gave her a chance letting her in that marriage, but she did not take that chance and so now the BRF likely just views her as this odd little addendum to their lives that they want to have walk away and stop mooching off of them. She did not at all really contribute to the well being of the BRF or nation and if she had worked and contributed, she would eventually be embraced, but instead she went on this joyride and wrecked careers, reputations, and yes, undermined the credibility of the entire monarchical system. She also trashed the historical Diamond Jubilee and turned it into a complete trashfest and just for that alone, she should have been made to suffer for it. So you think the public after 10 years still haven’t embraced her nor do they love her? I agree she could have done so much for the history and heritage of Britain. So much suffering in that country. She could do a lot for them. |
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Post by kueifei on Feb 9, 2021 20:52:01 GMT
The public did embrace her, but regrettably she threw all that away. At this point in time, it is clear that she would be pitied if there were a divorce, but it is clear that if there were an end, it would take work to justify it, the shattering of yet another  -tale, but I believe that there is no way that it would be impossible. Kate has done so little that it is game over for her. When this pandemic ends, realistically, there will be a lot of work at pulling lives back together and in many cases, most lives will never be able to be the same. There will be an economy to rebuild, mourning for the dead, an entire medical community that will be in need of serious mental health help, and there will be the shock of being in an entirely different world from the one that we've been living in for the past couple of decades. There is no way that Kate being broomed out will make primary headlines or primary focus. She is in a very insecure position and I daresay that if William wanted to get rid of her quickly and with little fanfare or focus, now would be the best possible time for it. Yet William refuses mainly since he is too much of a coward, or he is afraid of having to make a sincere and actual effort. |
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Post by purple1 on Feb 9, 2021 21:10:20 GMT
The public did embrace her, but regrettably she threw all that away. At this point in time, it is clear that she would be pitied if there were a divorce, but it is clear that if there were an end, it would take work to justify it, the shattering of yet another -tale, but I believe that there is no way that it would be impossible. Kate has done so little that it is game over for her. When this pandemic ends, realistically, there will be a lot of work at pulling lives back together and in many cases, most lives will never be able to be the same. There will be an economy to rebuild, mourning for the dead, an entire medical community that will be in need of serious mental health help, and there will be the shock of being in an entirely different world from the one that we've been living in for the past couple of decades. There is no way that Kate being broomed out will make primary headlines or primary focus. She is in a very insecure position and I daresay that if William wanted to get rid of her quickly and with little fanfare or focus, now would be the best possible time for it. Yet William refuses mainly since he is too much of a coward, or he is afraid of having to make a sincere and actual effort. I agree once the pandemic is gone the world is different and no longer are the Royals getting the headlines or used as distractions. She could have cemented a legacy during this time we are in but she and the firm did nothing. So if she and the rest of the Royals can’t even bring attention to causes what’s left of them? This is why Kate is just a celeb Royal to me and not actually a Royal princess who does a fabulous job at it. This is why I’ve said that once The Queen is gone I don’t see the monarchy lasting. They don’t have a diana who can influence and impact public opinion. |
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Post by Admin on Feb 9, 2021 22:46:16 GMT
Hello,
Just a general reminder to all: we all, of course, have our feelings about certain royals, and in various degrees. All is good and we are all entitled to our views. Just please keep the discussion focussed on the royals, and not about any poster's personal opinions.
That said, this is a very interesting thread and keep up the great posts, All. I'm enjoying reading it!
Cheers,
Admin
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Post by purple1 on Feb 9, 2021 23:39:22 GMT
Hello, Just a general reminder to all: we all, of course, have our feelings about certain royals, and in various degrees. All is good and we are all entitled to our views. Just please keep the discussion focussed on the royals, and not about any poster's personal opinions. That said, this is a very interesting thread and keep up the great posts, All. I'm enjoying reading it! Cheers, Admin Thank you!! |
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Post by Admin on Feb 9, 2021 23:53:18 GMT
Hello, Just a general reminder to all: we all, of course, have our feelings about certain royals, and in various degrees. All is good and we are all entitled to our views. Just please keep the discussion focussed on the royals, and not about any poster's personal opinions. That said, this is a very interesting thread and keep up the great posts, All. I'm enjoying reading it! Cheers, Admin Thank you!! You are welcome!!!!  Admin |
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Post by despina on Feb 10, 2021 15:41:16 GMT
If Charlotte woul act in a decent way or if she finish a respectable university in France,could she be accepted by the French Aristo set?
Could she have a chance to became a French Princess or Duchess by marriage?
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Post by purple1 on Feb 10, 2021 16:22:39 GMT
If Charlotte woul act in a decent way or if she finish a respectable university in France,could she be accepted by the French Aristo set? Could she have a chance to became a French Princess or Duchess by marriage? Well France doesn’t have a monarchy anymore so no more prince and princesses but if she would have gone to a respectable French university and learned the french culture and did a lot of charities(not galas) in France and done a lot for the French heritage she could possibly be a French princess by affection IMO. |
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Post by kueifei on Feb 11, 2021 2:56:10 GMT
If Charlotte woul act in a decent way or if she finish a respectable university in France,could she be accepted by the French Aristo set? Could she have a chance to became a French Princess or Duchess by marriage?
Not likely. The French are a lot like the British set, only more private and not reigning and NOT legally recognized. She (like the Midds) can't just get acceptance by going to a good school and it is harder since there is less public social pressure to accept people they don't want to. As for marriage, almost impossible. Since they get to live very private lives, they are not at all required to be social with someone they don't want around. Again, much of it is by birth and second, the clubs/associations that monitor the behavior of that set are almost impossible to penetrate. Charlotte would not handle the behavior@l constrictions well and she would not at all handle the condescension that would come her way. She does not strike me as someone who would be content to be part of a quiet set and not someone who would strike me as chilled and laid back. In my view, that like a lot of socially ambitious actresses, she wouldn't stop at being a duchess or princess by marriage, she would want to ramp things up.
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Post by purple1 on Feb 11, 2021 6:55:31 GMT
If Charlotte woul act in a decent way or if she finish a respectable university in France,could she be accepted by the French Aristo set? Could she have a chance to became a French Princess or Duchess by marriage?
Not likely. The French are a lot like the British set, only more private and not reigning and NOT legally recognized. She (like the Midds) can't just get acceptance by going to a good school and it is harder since there is less public social pressure to accept people they don't want to. As for marriage, almost impossible. Since they get to live very private lives, they are not at all required to be social with someone they don't want around. Again, much of it is by birth and second, the clubs/associations that monitor the behavior of that set are almost impossible to penetrate. Charlotte would not handle the behavior@l constrictions well and she would not at all handle the condescension that would come her way. She does not strike me as someone who would be content to be part of a quiet set and not someone who would strike me as chilled and laid back. In my view, that like a lot of socially ambitious actresses, she wouldn't stop at being a duchess or princess by marriage, she would want to ramp things up.
In a dream world what would it take for someone to affectionately be a Princess of France? I guess be a patron of many French charities and organizations? |
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Post by purple1 on Feb 11, 2021 14:54:14 GMT
If this is true, this is a prime example of how celebrities are overtaken royalty and royalty just cares about being popular royal celebs.
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Post by despina on Feb 11, 2021 16:28:58 GMT
If Charlotte woul act in a decent way or if she finish a respectable university in France,could she be accepted by the French Aristo set? Could she have a chance to became a French Princess or Duchess by marriage?
Not likely. The French are a lot like the British set, only more private and not reigning and NOT legally recognized. She (like the Midds) can't just get acceptance by going to a good school and it is harder since there is less public social pressure to accept people they don't want to. As for marriage, almost impossible. Since they get to live very private lives, they are not at all required to be social with someone they don't want around. Again, much of it is by birth and second, the clubs/associations that monitor the behavior of that set are almost impossible to penetrate. Charlotte would not handle the behavior@l constrictions well and she would not at all handle the condescension that would come her way. She does not strike me as someone who would be content to be part of a quiet set and not someone who would strike me as chilled and laid back. In my view, that like a lot of socially ambitious actresses, she wouldn't stop at being a duchess or princess by marriage, she would want to ramp things up.
Interesting, it looks like the French are more harsher than the British set. So then Pippa try to be one of them ,these aristo might looke at her like someone from low escort. But still Charlotte is half aristo and her uncle is a rulling Monarch, I thought the has more chances to be accepted. |
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Post by purple1 on Feb 11, 2021 17:08:57 GMT
Not likely. The French are a lot like the British set, only more private and not reigning and NOT legally recognized. She (like the Midds) can't just get acceptance by going to a good school and it is harder since there is less public social pressure to accept people they don't want to. As for marriage, almost impossible. Since they get to live very private lives, they are not at all required to be social with someone they don't want around. Again, much of it is by birth and second, the clubs/associations that monitor the behavior of that set are almost impossible to penetrate. Charlotte would not handle the behavior@l constrictions well and she would not at all handle the condescension that would come her way. She does not strike me as someone who would be content to be part of a quiet set and not someone who would strike me as chilled and laid back. In my view, that like a lot of socially ambitious actresses, she wouldn't stop at being a duchess or princess by marriage, she would want to ramp things up.
Interesting, it looks like the French are more harsher than the British set. So then Pippa try to be one of them ,these aristo might looke at her like someone from low escort. But still Charlotte is half aristo and her uncle is a rulling Monarch, I thought the has more chances to be accepted. Honestly it’s weird but the only one who seemed to be accepted was Princess Diana. |
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Post by kueifei on Feb 11, 2021 17:24:49 GMT
Not likely. The French are a lot like the British set, only more private and not reigning and NOT legally recognized. She (like the Midds) can't just get acceptance by going to a good school and it is harder since there is less public social pressure to accept people they don't want to. As for marriage, almost impossible. Since they get to live very private lives, they are not at all required to be social with someone they don't want around. Again, much of it is by birth and second, the clubs/associations that monitor the behavior of that set are almost impossible to penetrate. Charlotte would not handle the behavior@l constrictions well and she would not at all handle the condescension that would come her way. She does not strike me as someone who would be content to be part of a quiet set and not someone who would strike me as chilled and laid back. In my view, that like a lot of socially ambitious actresses, she wouldn't stop at being a duchess or princess by marriage, she would want to ramp things up.
In a dream world what would it take for someone to affectionately be a Princess of France? I guess be a patron of many French charities and organizations?
I have no idea. Maybe there is no real way to 'earn' it, it either one has it or doesn't have it.
As for Diana, she was related to the entire French aristocracy and quite honestly, I do believe that blood to these people is all that matters, that is what it takes to 'get in' and then end up with the ability to fit in with no issues.
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Post by purple1 on Feb 11, 2021 17:55:59 GMT
In a dream world what would it take for someone to affectionately be a Princess of France? I guess be a patron of many French charities and organizations?
I have no idea. Maybe there is no real way to 'earn' it, it either one has it or doesn't have it.
As for Diana, she was related to the entire French aristocracy and quite honestly, I do believe that blood to these people is all that matters, that is what it takes to 'get in' and then end up with the ability to fit in with no issues.
aYet when William and Kate toured Paris back in 2017 it barely made news. I think besides her being born an aristocrat Diana just touched the French people’s hearts. She would visit the children’s hospitals in France and that is endearing to people. |
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