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Post by kueifei on Oct 22, 2020 15:21:18 GMT
That was terrible. Barbara was supposedly a good stabilizing factor and Diana had no right to do that. Unreal how she wouldn't just learn to let people do their jobs. As for sparking years of psychological problems, I'm iffy about that since it's not entirely a traumatizing factor to lose one's nanny.
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Post by Admin on Oct 22, 2020 17:16:11 GMT
That was terrible. Barbara was supposedly a good stabilizing factor and Diana had no right to do that. Unreal how she wouldn't just learn to let people do their jobs. As for sparking years of psychological problems, I'm iffy about that since it's not entirely a traumatizing factor to lose one's nanny.
I agree - there had to be WAY more to it. Traumatic would be ripped apart from a parent forever - which happened many times in royal history. Literally. I am getting a tad miffed about all this constant justification of a couple of young men who never were made to grow up and take some ownership of things.
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Post by kueifei on Oct 22, 2020 20:21:05 GMT
This isn't the 90's or 80's anymore and the angst of the hyper-privileged is not something that everyone wants to empathize with. No one wants to hear about how Kate is 'mom guilt' or how Harry still suffers PTSD from camera flashes. Diana somehow managed what was impossible, figuring out how to get people to sympathize with the insanely privileged and managed to convince people that she had a rough, terrible, disadvantaged life. Despite the titles, despite the lovers, despite the limitless money, and despite the limitless couture and designer clothes. I hate to be bitter, but she never wore rags or wore polyester or saw a dry cleaning bill. She never even knew what it was like to wear fakes until a little later in her life. She wore some costume stuff, but she was not someone who started out wearing costume jewels. At nineteen she was wearing diamonds and pearls and that was just her ancestral tiara! She wore other Spencer jewels and was someone who likely never knew what it was like to wear stuff that was second hand. She also didn't remember what it was like to lose her husband to another woman. There was Oliver Hoare and Will Carling, both men who were married and she wrecked the Carling marriage. Then with Dodi, she filched him from Kelly Fisher who had been engaged to Dodi until Diana came along. Then there was the fact that Hewitt was dropped and demonized for talking about her, despite the fact that she was not some kind of victim of him; she treated him like dirt after he decided to fulfill his obligations as a soldier. As for Hasnat, she was so stupid to think that he should just relinquish his medical career to run around the world with her like some doctor who would follow her around to disaster sites around the world. Her biggest flaw is that she refused to consider that people LIKE having substantial responsibilities in their lives and didn't WANT to drop them to cater to Diana's latest trendy fixation. She also didn't understand that there are places in life she did not belong. She was not (and likely never would be) a true head of state and also a true equal. She had the best setup of a life time and it wasn't enough. At thirty, she was surely fully aware of right/wrong and knew that messing with married men was wounding to the wife. She had no right to just pull even a tenth of the things that she did.
If she had been born on the opposite end of the spectrum, then I believe she would have been despised and derided, not adored and given adulation.
Here are a few pieces I found on the internet about her that I agree with:
Princess Diana was a manipulative, mawkish harridan
Diana, Princess of Wales was not a saint.
Poor, shy, sweet Diana? Don't make me laugh
Says it all really. Unfortunately her sons turned out the same.
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Post by Admin on Oct 23, 2020 2:16:13 GMT
This isn't the 90's or 80's anymore and the angst of the hyper-privileged is not something that everyone wants to empathize with. No one wants to hear about how Kate is 'mom guilt' or how Harry still suffers PTSD from camera flashes. Diana somehow managed what was impossible, figuring out how to get people to sympathize with the insanely privileged and managed to convince people that she had a rough, terrible, disadvantaged life. Despite the titles, despite the lovers, despite the limitless money, and despite the limitless couture and designer clothes. I hate to be bitter, but she never wore rags or wore polyester or saw a dry cleaning bill. She never even knew what it was like to wear fakes until a little later in her life. She wore some costume stuff, but she was not someone who started out wearing costume jewels. At nineteen she was wearing diamonds and pearls and that was just her ancestral tiara! She wore other Spencer jewels and was someone who likely never knew what it was like to wear stuff that was second hand. She also didn't remember what it was like to lose her husband to another woman. There was Oliver Hoare and Will Carling, both men who were married and she wrecked the Carling marriage. Then with Dodi, she filched him from Kelly Fisher who had been engaged to Dodi until Diana came along. Then there was the fact that Hewitt was dropped and demonized for talking about her, despite the fact that she was not some kind of victim of him; she treated him like dirt after he decided to fulfill his obligations as a soldier. As for Hasnat, she was so stupid to think that he should just relinquish his medical career to run around the world with her like some doctor who would follow her around to disaster sites around the world. Her biggest flaw is that she refused to consider that people LIKE having substantial responsibilities in their lives and didn't WANT to drop them to cater to Diana's latest trendy fixation. She also didn't understand that there are places in life she did not belong. She was not (and likely never would be) a true head of state and also a true equal. She had the best setup of a life time and it wasn't enough. At thirty, she was surely fully aware of right/wrong and knew that messing with married men was wounding to the wife. She had no right to just pull even a tenth of the things that she did.
If she had been born on the opposite end of the spectrum, then I believe she would have been despised and derided, not adored and given adulation. Here are a few pieces I found on the internet about her that I agree with:
Princess Diana was a manipulative, mawkish harridan
Diana, Princess of Wales was not a saint.
Poor, shy, sweet Diana? Don't make me laugh
Thank you, all an interesting read! She did have an overall sense of self-pity - I wouldn't disagree with that. I think there was a tendency to overlook her failings and overblow her contributions. No, not even close to a saint - a very flawed being, like the rest of us. ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png)
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Post by kueifei on Oct 23, 2020 3:52:25 GMT
She was flawed, we all are; her flaws were self pity and she was determined to be a victim of everyone around her. At nineteen, she had no business being married, but at thirty, she was someone who should have realized that she was making bad choices and needed to have straightened herself out. She should have realized that smelling like puke would disgust her husband and going to astrologers and getting excited about the thought of the father of her children dying in a horrific accident was plain wrong. She then should have known that since she grew up in her very set, that going on Panorama would be a horrific idea and openly challenging the Heir over his rightful place was a bad idea that would get her arse kicked out of the BRF quickly for it. I know Ingrid Seward is a true sycophant, but her book "The Queen and Di" is a book that was pretty unbiased. She pointed out that Diana wasn't quite sure what it was she had been trying to achieve with the Panorama interview and that HM had worked hard to protect her from people who wanted to take a hard-line approach from her from the first time they thought she was stepping out of line. It did excoriate Charles for extravagance and not seeing that his wife was sincerely upset at his continued relationship with a woman who his wife saw as a threat. Ingrid also pointed out that Diana's work with the suffering was sincere. I believe that since she never needed AIDS work for popularity. Yet, self pity became her drug, her alcoholism.
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Post by Admin on Oct 23, 2020 4:14:22 GMT
She was flawed, we all are; her flaws were self pity and she was determined to be a victim of everyone around her. At nineteen, she had no business being married, but at thirty, she was someone who should have realized that she was making bad choices and needed to have straightened herself out. She should have realized that smelling like puke would disgust her husband and going to astrologers and getting excited about the thought of the father of her children dying in a horrific accident was plain wrong. She then should have known that since she grew up in her very set, that going on Panorama would be a horrific idea and openly challenging the Heir over his rightful place was a bad idea that would get her arse kicked out of the BRF quickly for it. I know Ingrid Seward is a true sycophant, but her book "The Queen and Di" is a book that was pretty unbiased. She pointed out that Diana wasn't quite sure what it was she had been trying to achieve with the Panorama interview and that HM had worked hard to protect her from people who wanted to take a hard-line approach from her from the first time they thought she was stepping out of line. It did excoriate Charles for extravagance and not seeing that his wife was sincerely upset at his continued relationship with a woman who his wife saw as a threat. Ingrid also pointed out that Diana's work with the suffering was sincere. I believe that since she never needed AIDS work for popularity. Yet, self pity became her drug, her alcoholism.
It's unfortunate she let that self-pity and self-centredness, really, become the central focus of her life, then. Unable to look beyond that and break out of what seems like very self-defeating and dysfunctional behaviour. I find it rather pathetic and sad when people seem to defeat themselves without really realizing that they need to break out of that mindset. She had her merits and should have been accepting of them; should have maybe tried hard to move forward?? Moot point now, I suppose.
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Post by kueifei on Oct 23, 2020 5:04:41 GMT
I think she could have been a remarkable princess beyond her looks if she had just 'fallen into line.' She could have sought out advice, could have accepted certain hard facts, and worked hard to improve her mind and cultivate herself beyond that airhead image. Her biggest bad choice was to refuse bodyguards from the palace and she never should have been allowed to have a choice in that. She kind of reminds me of Rose from Titanic, not aware of just how hard the world can be. She thought she was 'better' and more 'aware' than those around her and go figure, never figured out how to handle the 'real world.' She never anticipated that invitations would dry up, that the loss of her "HRH" would result in the press becoming rude and even crude towards her; I also don't think she anticipated having to put up with certain types of ostracism that she was not equipped to handle. She never really did pull it together in that area and never really did use her brain and think that if she divorced the Prince of Wales, that she would not be crowned next to him at all. I honestly think she thought that she could swing being a kind of new kind of ex, an ex with a kind of co-rulership when the time came. Impossible. I did read in that Lady Colin Campbell book, that she was offered "HRH Princess Diana," that would be hers in her own right, but she turned that down to hold out of "HRH Diana, Princess of Wales" and as a result had neither. She just pushed her luck way too many times.
Just getting that ring on her finger set her up for life and I regret that she didn't just learn to live with that one minor unpleasant aspect of her life. She threw so much away and she could have made Camilla's life a misery. Despite her position as confidante, Camilla didn't get to have titles bestowed on her husband and didn't get a lavish income. She would always be Camilla Parker Bowels and would never have the best seats, or the best place in any procession. No matter what, Camilla would NEVER be able to be a public figure wielding influence or any kind of life that would prevent Diana from being crowned Queen Consort when the time came and Diana was always going to be front/center and always the legitimate, respectable figure in British culture. Diana had all that and more and her pressures were huge, but over time she would have handled that responsibly. As the media darling, she could have made it clear that Camilla was preventing her from having more children and the British nation would have gone after Camilla regularly. Heck, Diana could have taken regular shots at Camilla and had her press acolytes write vicious articles about her in the press on a daily basis and Charles couldn't have done a THING about it. If I had been in that position, I would have paid through the nose to have Camilla excoriated regularly; paid well to write the most vile obscene things and known that if Camilla had retaliated, she, Diana, could have made things even worse. Heck, Diana could have sicced the courtiers on her since she surely had her own allies in the palace.
I am also certain that if Diana had just been willing to grow more, she would have been able to grow into the same kind of relationship dynamic as the rest of her aristocratic peers, which would have been comforting since she would have not been feeling so alone or isolated. She would have also ended up just another royal consort with a cheating husband, but she would have been much better off just settling in and stop fighting things she would never be able to change about her husband or life in general. Imagine if she had accepted some painful facts, tormented the mistress regularly, and decided to adjust into the fabulous reality of all she had going for her, I am dead sure she would have been perfectly able to live a good life, maybe have a few more kids, and then proceed to remain alive and a Princess of Wales. It is regrettable that she embraced the wrong forms of 'modern' feminism and that corroded a huge part of her ability to cope with her role as Consort. Thing is, that there isn't any REAL equality anywhere in this world and she made the BAD CHOICE to think that good press equaled the status and experience that Charles had, but it didn't. She made the even bigger mistake of thinking that she was in a position to make demands and set terms, but she wasn't. She was someone who would have been a fabulous asset, if she had just accepted the normalcy of her position and enjoyed the ride. She could have lived an almost blissfully perfect life.
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Post by Admin on Oct 23, 2020 5:15:00 GMT
I'm going to come back to this discussion - this is all so very interesting. I love these posts as I'm always learning something a little different, plus seeing different viewpoints. Kudos! ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png)
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Post by kueifei on Oct 27, 2020 23:55:17 GMT
Does anyone else agree with me or have an opposing viewpoint?
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Post by Admin on Oct 28, 2020 3:38:56 GMT
Does anyone else agree with me or have an opposing viewpoint? Sorry, been stretched in many directions lately...anybody?
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Post by Admin on Oct 28, 2020 3:42:58 GMT
Does anyone else agree with me or have an opposing viewpoint? Diana did have the best intentions, despite her limitations and sometimes rather very impulsive and self-centred actions. I think both she and Charles allowed way too much freedom to Willy and Harry, without a lot of direction. In a lot of ways, she never outgrew or got bored of the self-pity or playing the public for sympathy. You don't set up an opposing camp in royal circles and not expect it to backfire on you. I swear, KF, you seem to have nailed so many points about Diana right on - you really seem to have a good understanding of what made her tick - have you ever thought of writing a book with your perspective? I am serious.
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Post by kueifei on Oct 28, 2020 4:17:02 GMT
Actually yeah, I have thought about that quite often.. Thing is, that Jackie O. had HUGE reasons to feel sorry for herself and had her husband's brains blown out right in front of her face and it is clear that she could have brought down the Presidency with one interview, but she didn't. She did her part and contributed and was a HUGE asset in regards to her husband's status. Yet, Jackie worked to make sure her kids didn't lose faith in the ideals of her husband and reputation and quite frankly, that took guts beyond anything else. Diana just didn't have that stamina and chose not to try to grow beyond self destructive habits. I have had self pity, but I get out of it since there's nothing left there for me after a while.If she had been smarter or at least grateful, or GROW UP, she would have been able to keep Camilla from becoming consort and would have been able to hold on to a lot of mor@l ground just by being the wife. Charles and she should have just followed the formula and decided to live different lives and maintain the connection just for the sake of continuity. I just resent how she wanted so much despite having it all, already. I do wish HM had had her locked in a mental hospital until she was stabilized and she never should have been allowed to continue all that behavior or skip out on therapy like she was.
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Post by Admin on Nov 6, 2020 3:30:24 GMT
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Post by Admin on Nov 6, 2020 3:33:52 GMT
Okay, this seems really silly and very odd. I wish people would learn and truly understand royal history before they wail about how these modern-name princesses by marriage had it so rough. Give me a break. I and others can tell you some true real royal horror stories.people.com/royals/emma-corrin-compares-princess-diana-meghan-markle-history-repeating-itself/Emma Corrin Compares Meghan Markle to Princess Diana: 'Can't You See History Repeating Itself?' Emma Corrin, who plays Princess Diana in the fourth season of The Crown, believes Meghan and Diana have a lot in common when it comes to how they were treated by the media By Stephanie Petit October 22, 2020 12:38 PM ![](https://www.animatedimages.org/data/media/318/animated-computer-smiley-image-0060.gif)
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Post by kueifei on Nov 6, 2020 4:26:57 GMT
If Emma were talking about Fergie and the stuff she had to put up with, okay, but Diana was ADORED and feted by the press, not at all attacked until Diana lost her "HRH" and ended up making one too many enemies. Fergie was the one who was attacked even while pregnant and it is clear that celebs are getting way too invested in how the tabloids treat public figures. There is no way that Diana had rough press treatment and quite honestly, I am fed up with hearing about how Diana was a victim of the press. She was contacting them and she played with fire, pushed her luck, and ended up dead.
Diana could have still refused to go through with it. She could have refused to end up doing this to herself and to her people. She was someone who made the dumb choice to build a relationship with the press in her own right without LEARNING how underhanded the press could be at times and wouldn't rely on real buffers who could keep her from making a mess. She had to have known that it would be the mistake of her LIFE and that suggesting that Charles be skipped over would get her thrown out. She was already being sneaky herself, telling palace security that she was just buying new stereo equipment and decided to do the interview on the anniversary of the Guy Fawkes plot to blow up Parliament and thus shatter the British government. She made the terrible choice to also keep trying to control the divorce proceedings and making peremptory announcements and antagonizing HM to the point where HM just stripped her of it.
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Post by Admin on Nov 12, 2020 1:39:32 GMT
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Post by Admin on Nov 12, 2020 1:41:02 GMT
etcanada.com/news/712298/princess-dianas-close-friend-claims-she-noticed-a-sudden-change-in-the-royal-after-infamous-martin-bashir-interview/Princess Diana’s Close Friend Claims She Noticed A ‘Sudden Change’ In The Royal After Infamous Martin Bashir Interview By BECCA LONGMIRE. 10 hours ago Princess Diana’s close friend Rosa Monckton has spoken about how the late royal changed following her infamous interview with Martin Bashir for Panorama 25 years ago. Monckton hit out at the BBC and Bashir in a piece for the Daily Mail, writing: “Diana changed from being very concerned with day-to-day matters, just like any normal friend, to suddenly becoming obsessed with plots against her.” Monckton explained how a paranoid Diana started to think that Prince Charles was having an affair with her sons’ nanny, Tiggy Legge-Bourke, with her even changing her number at Kensington Palace. ![](https://etcanada.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/GettyImages-618242606.jpg?quality=80&strip=all&w=720&h=480&crop=1)
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Post by kueifei on Nov 12, 2020 2:25:56 GMT
I think the supportive reaction ended up reinforcing a lot of Diana's delusions and she ended up escalating her behavior.She got a lot of validation after that interview from the media and public and as a result she ended up deciding to take things even further.
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Post by purple1 on Nov 13, 2020 19:34:57 GMT
I think the supportive reaction ended up reinforcing a lot of Diana's delusions and she ended up escalating her behavior.She got a lot of validation after that interview from the media and public and as a result she ended up deciding to take things even further. i wish she hadn’t done that interview. It kind of ruined her life.
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Post by kueifei on Nov 13, 2020 23:02:15 GMT
I don't think there is any myth or mystery and I regret that she has be deified and viewed as a victim or someone who has never really been responsible for her choices in life. It is always a bad idea to idealize someone who is self destructive since you are copying someone who makes one bad decision after another. She made sure there was no mystery in her life with her constant spilling of her personal business and there is no myth. She was just a self destructive woman who was (for one reason or another) determined to make everyone around her pay in full for what was going on inside her head. She made bad choice after bad choice and I resent that (as someone who has worked HARD to stabilize and sort out my mental health) that no one holds her responsible despite the fact that she was not someone who did all she could to fix herself while she was married and a young mother. It wasn't until AFTER she had blown through the BRF and shattered Charles' reputation to pieces and called into question the previously unquestioned acceptance of the realities of the succession that she had a full wake-up call (only after losing her marriage for good along with her "HRH") and even still, she was still wrecking lives. The Carling marriage, the Hoare's quiet life, plus the nonstop leaks and then the lawsuits and suing malls for recording her when she was wearing major low cleavage blouses. Then there was poor Hasnat who genuinely liked her, but she made a fool of him by initially denying that they were in a relationship, which is a HUGE slap in the face to be privately seen and then publicly denied and in Eastern culture, that is a way of suggesting that the one being denied is an inferior, fit only to be used, but not respected. Then she wanted to have him leave his practice that he was devoted to in order to be a doctor who would fly around the world and it drives me nuts that she wanted the men in her life to just drop everything and spend time with her. Then there was Dodi, who was informally engaged to Kelly Fisher and really, couldn't she just take some breathing space instead of jumping man to man?
Princess Diana claimed Charles said he didn’t love her on the eve of their wedding
How many times do we have to hear this? I mean after what point can the world please move on and let her go and leave all that behind? Just for once, can everyone stop feeling sorry for someone who spent her whole life getting away with things that would have gotten other people either institutionalized or jailed?
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